Change Brady to a charity, or give it away for free.

[Sepia and Dust]

I would also add to the list that the 2nd Amendment was put in as a check on governments power. As an armed populace is the power. Disarm the populace, and the power shifts over to the government. The founders wanted us armed to the teeth.

I dunno. I think that an informed and empowered population is sufficient. More of our corrupt leaders have been removed by ballots than by bullets. Just as many, I think, have resigned simply because of political or societal pressure. The gun is the option of absolute last resort.

[Lily Sawyer]

[America's] founders wanted us armed to the teeth.

Really? Can you support that statement with documentation other than a general reference to the Second Amendment? I don't recall a portion thereof referring to the U.S. citizenry being "armed to the teeth", only a general reference to bearing arms: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." (from http://constitutionus.com/#x2)

[Sepia and Dust]

You have one set of simple rights as a living creature on Earth. It is also the only responsibility you have. As Morgan Freeman put it in the movie "Lean on Me"...

"..all I gotta do is stay black and die..."

Sir, please step away from the Ayn Rand, and keep your hands where I can see them!

[exzel]

Really? Can you support that statement with documentation other than a general reference to the Second Amendment? I don't recall a portion thereof referring to the U.S. citizenry being "armed to the teeth", only a general reference to bearing arms: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." (from http://constitutionus.com/#x2)

I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves …"
Richard Henry Lee
writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, Letter XVIII, May, 1788.

"The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full posession of them."
Zachariah Johnson
Elliot's Debates, vol. 3 "The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution."

"… the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms"
Philadelphia Federal Gazette
June 18, 1789, Pg. 2, Col. 2
Article on the Bill of Rights

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …"
Samuel Adams
quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"

"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
George Washington
First President of the United States

"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788

"The great object is that every man be armed." and "Everyone who is able may have a gun."
Patrick Henry
American Patriot

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
Patrick Henry
American Patriot

"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that … it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; … "
Thomas Jefferson
letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. ME 16:45.

"The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
Alexander Hamilton
The Federalist Papers at 184-8

[kingricefan]

Self defense is, of course, a natural right. There is no natural right to owning any particular sort of weapon, though. I stand by my assertion that the right to keep and bear arms was included as a way to empower the citizenry.

Consider:

With a gun, if someone tries to harm me, I can defend myself and my family.

With a gun, if my region is invaded by a foreign force, I can help hold the fort until the military arrives.

With a gun, should the government refuse to stand for election, then I cannot fight off the US military. But I can assassinate a despot at 200 yards.

All three of these things were on the founders' minds when they drafted our Constitution. Each of these were a threat to the fledgeling nation, and citizen empowerment was their solution. Now, the last two aren't likely to happen within my lifetime, granted, but the right needs to be preserved for future need.

Yes, 'all three of these things were on the founders minds when they drafted our Constitution', but one thing that wasn't on their minds and hadn't even been produced yet was the rapid fire assault rifles and mega-clips of ammo- which is what needs to be banned. I think the Constitution would've been worded quite differently if these weapons were around back then. We don't want to take away your other firearms, get it? As Ms Mod stated many posts ago- why should the 'rights' of some people who own these types of weapons infringe on the 'rights' of the many who DO NOT WANT THESE WEAPONS AVAILABLE? I want to live in a society where I don't have to constantly be worrying about some nutcase coming into a movie theater where I or someone I love is watching a movie and open fire on a bunch of innocent folks or going into a school and killing innocent children who have their whole lives ahead of them. Everyday it's on the news. EVERYDAY! It has to STOP! Democracy rules here as does the majority and the majority of folk don't want these weapons anymore. Period.

[hossenpepper]

And as a PS to ,y "natural rights" post, specifically in regards to the founders... Name one that said we DIDN'T need a government. That fundamental truth was the one and only thing upon which they ALL agreed. They recognized that all things that defined the society would be defined in the laws and structure of thr government which created the "country" in the first place. For if it was a "natural state of things, all governments, societies and religions would be the same. Short of a singularity of truth being shouted and demanded by the universe around us, all of your precious "rights" and especially your opinions are simply man made, and therefore not interwoven into the fabric of the universe from which you sprang forth.

OK, now I am done.

Tonight I will eat pork chops and revel in the fact that I don't do it because I have a right to eat, but rather that I like the taste of pig and was able to vicariously outsmart it and eat it before it ate me.

[~Ally~]

I’ve got lots and lots of used paperbacks that I give away to people in order to turn them on to the writings of SK. I would be glad to help a gal out if you want (and you aren’t averse to accepting gifts from the devil that is )

Zel you are not the devil. Everybody knows she's female and she's *ahem*... me! Seriously, though, you are one of the nicest people I've had the pleasure to converse with here. Sure your opinions may seem a bit whackadoodle at times--and you can say the same about us--but I respect that you believe in them enough to defend them. You've proven to me in the past you're a damn good man so stop trying to steal my from me...it's mine! ya Zel.

[hossenpepper]

Sir, please step away from the Ayn Rand, and keep your hands where I can see them!

Oh I reject Rand fully. Her supposition derived from this truth is illogical at best. I simply meant to say that there are no "rights" except those defined by the collective of the society, expressed and ensured by its government. This in no way implies that one can bulldoze their way through life. In fact quite the opposite as there are NO RIGHTS, including the one to be a greedy a$$hole. It implies that all should humble themselves and be glad they are alive to debate if you have "rights" and no one is special or exceptional.

We are all meatbags sucking wind until we don't anymore. But that doesn't mean it's time for a hedonistic greedfest for those that can wriggle their way into a position to do so. The belief in individual exceptionalism is the opposite of what I described, and is the cornerstone of Rand's ideas that some should be privileged and others should beg to help them be so. The rejection of religious bases for human's rights may be common to Rand's thinking and my description, but I can assure you I am the opposite of that self indulgent nutjob.

[GNTLGNT]

I kinda sorta don't mind when you "smirch"...... ♥

...I've been a bit crankier than usual of late...just tired of people poopin' on Steve and others, and then gettin' all huffy and out of sorts when I call em on it....but we'll smirch again soon luv...

[Sepia and Dust]

Oh I reject Rand fully... I can assure you I am the opposite of that self indulgent nutjob.

Well said.