Questions about the ending - spoilers

[thebarbster24]

Hi, I have, unsurprisingly, a few questions about the ending. I'll try to make this as coherent as I can, so please bear with me.

1. Are all the characters caught in the loop or just Roland?

It would be kinda horrible to think that they all had to die over and over for... well, for a long time and for someone else's quest. Starting with one of Jake's deaths.
Or do you think that not every loop starts with Roland meeting Jake at the way station?
Do Eddie's and Jake's respective deaths in the two Keystone worlds happen only in this one loop?

2. Towards the end Roland is told that a man who can't learn from the past is condemned to repeat his mistakes (or something like that, I think). But how can he learn from a past he doesn't remember? I mean, in this loop he learned to love and care for others and not just for his quest (or so I take it) but how does that help him in the next loop, if he doesn't remember a thing? Or was the fact that he had the horn at the end his reward for that acquired ability to love in the previous loop (the one we read about)? Meaning that the next time he would be more caring and make different decisions, maybe even abandon his quest for the tower.
And I'd still like to know if he would meet the same set of characters in this scenario.

3. When Susannah left for NY 1987, meeting with that world's version of Eddie and Jake, would there already be a version of Susannah, some 23 years older than our Suze?

Thankya big-big to anyone who'd like to discuss this, or point me to a thread where this has been discussed already (and I'm especially curious about question no. 1).

[thebarbster24]

After the brief time off when the MB wasn't accepting posts, I thought of one more thing:

In Roland's world and Stephen King's/our world time only goes one way - forward. Does this not exclude the very possibility of a time loop?

[omm poppa mow mow]

There are no billboards, are there? Not a lot of signage saying buy this don't buy that give a hoot don't pollute.

Great questions, all, so many have asked these and others like it. Now this next might possibly have no possible bearing on anything at all...but I read it earlier when I was looking for information to post on this other thread...something about...sheesh..what was it? time travel? I don't think so....something else...and why is it important now I ask? I wonder.

Has to do with a speech/essay called "Banned Books and Other Concerns"...to wit:

the greatest offenders are fundamentalist preachers and teachers. they are people like jimmy swaggert and pat robertson who, if they could jump into a time machine and go back to the garden of eden, would point up and say:
"god, you've got this tree. it's the tree of good and evil. now, you are going to put a barbed-wire fence around it right now!

and we're back to the billboards again...none around...no signs, no billboards...i dunno, i do get the sense that it is only roland...him and the man in black mayhap....just him...

[GNTLGNT]

The answer is "C"...
(yeah, I'm an idiot)...

[Robert Gray]

By what is established in the series, i.e. that time moves in only one direction in the keystone world, Roland's adventures are not truly a loop. He is (for now at least) returning to a position in his life but that doesn't mean the events he took part in are erased or being overwritten. They all took place. While he could (in theory) interact with other versions of our old friends, it would never be exactly the same ones. The multiverse is vast beyond comprehension and Roland's trek through it isn't truly blind. There is an architect with a purpose behind it.

[themadone06]

1. Are all the characters caught in the loop or just Roland?

I think that all the characters are caught in the same loop as Roland. My main reasoning is that Ka is a wheel, and all these characters are part of Roland's Ka-tet. These characters are necessary for Roland's salvation, and the end of his "loop". When he finally ends the sacraficing of his friends for the Tower then he will find peace. If his friends aren't there then Roland can never learn his true lesson. But, I think in the end that Eddie and Suze aren't included. I think they will meet each other in clearing after Roland is granted access.

2. Towards the end Roland is told that a man who can't learn from the past is condemned to repeat his mistakes (or something like that, I think). But how can he learn from a past he doesn't remember? I mean, in this loop he learned to love and care for others and not just for his quest (or so I take it) but how does that help him in the next loop, if he doesn't remember a thing? Or was the fact that he had the horn at the end his reward for that acquired ability to love in the previous loop (the one we read about)? Meaning that the next time he would be more caring and make different decisions, maybe even abandon his quest for the tower.
And I'd still like to know if he would meet the same set of characters in this scenario.

Roland learns from his past each time he returns to the beginning of his quest. He may not remember everything, but it isn't like he starts back at square one. He isn't the same man, and he has learned lessons that he will carry on through out his quest. I think the fact that he had the horn means this will be his last quest. Cuthbert had asked Roland to pick up the horn. I at first felt that Roland was to blow the horn for one final charge, and die at the side of his original Ka-tet. But, then there wouldn't be a point for him to return every time to his ride through the desert. I think Roland's loop ends when he decided that Jake is more important than the Tower. If he decided to save Jake, instead of letting him drop, he has earned his peace. In all of Roland's loops his friends die, for Roland's quest, and they all go to the clearing at the end of the path. The only person who is left behind is Roland. In the end, I believe, they will all be there together. This is because the Tower truly cannot be saved, and there are other worlds than these.

3. When Susannah left for NY 1987, meeting with that world's version of Eddie and Jake, would there already be a version of Susannah, some 23 years older than our Suze?

This always got me. I think it is just too strange for them to be from the same string of time. I think they are all from different worlds that are so similar they just don't see the difference. But, I guess it is certainly possible that there were two Suzes in that world at that time.

[david(j)]

By what is established in the series, i.e. that time moves in only one direction in the keystone world, Roland's adventures are not truly a loop. He is (for now at least) returning to a position in his life but that doesn't mean the events he took part in are erased or being overwritten. They all took place. While he could (in theory) interact with other versions of our old friends, it would never be exactly the same ones. The multiverse is vast beyond comprehension and Roland's trek through it isn't truly blind. There is an architect with a purpose behind it.

this post just blew my mind. this had never occurred to me. thanks for that!

[Dax]

Also, with Roland waking up. And him mostly always knowing. Just knowing alot. Doesn't it make you think it might all have been a dream?