Texas Wants Women to Listen to Fetal Hearbeat Before Abortion

[PatInTheHat]

It's just another step in the ongoing conservative measures to circumvent the Supreme Court decision that allow women the right to make choices about their reproductive rights and impose their (conservative) values upon all women. They can't do away with abortion rights as the law stands but their plan is to chip away at it to the point that it makes it more and more difficult for women to have one.

Well, unless your wealthy enough to be able to afford it cash money out of pocket....or of course have a nice stiff coat hanger, or are willing to throw yourself down a steep flight of steps, just like them good ol' days o' yore.

[JohnDalglish]

Of course. As soon as you send someone (armed?) to collect them. The problem for the collectors will be what to do with all of the ammunition we insist they take first. MOLON LABE.

Hi,

I imagine that presents few problems to someone armed with, say, neutron bombs, and I have reason to believe that the US owns a LOT of weaponry, even your poilice (National Guard) have jets!

Long days and pleasant nights

[CorbinKale]

It's just another step in the ongoing conservative measures to circumvent the Supreme Court decision that allow women the right to make choices about their reproductive rights and impose their (conservative) values upon all women. They can't do away with abortion rights as the law stands but their plan is to chip away at it to the point that it makes it more and more difficult for women to have one.

That is true.

I only seek clarity in the law. Murder needs to be defined, clearly. Currently, there is MUCH to be clarified. Right now, the gender of the parent killing the child, and how well-developed the child is and whether the parent wants the child dead, is what determines whether it is murder, or merely choice.

That is terrible and conflicting law.

[CorbinKale]

Why would you need someone to forcibly collect it if you're apparently voluntarily willing to regress to the 18th century--ah, yes, silly me, I guess that's only the 18th century as long as it applies to women?

I think we have shown what happens, throughout our history, when outside forces come to collect our arms.

No, I would not choose to trade one inequality for another. Once, women were mistreated and viewed as property under law. That is not much different from how some women view their progeny today.

[CorbinKale]

Hi,

I imagine that presents few problems to someone armed with, say, neutron bombs, and I have reason to believe that the US owns a LOT of weaponry, even your poilice (National Guard) have jets!

Long days and pleasant nights

Sometimes, governments assault their own citizens, as our Founders were well aware. The situation you point out is exactly why the 2nd Amendment was enshrined into the Constitution. The armed citizenry was to have uninfringed access to the same arms as the tyrants they would eventually have to defend against.

Politicians always tout hunting and home defense as reasons for the 2nd Amendment, but the Founders were very clear on that subject. It was meant as the final defense against tyranny.

Also, our ALL volunteer military is made up of the people, sworn to support and defend the Constitution and obey only lawful orders. Like in Egypt, I expect our armed forces to side with the people if such arms confiscations orders are issued again, as they were during Katrina. We KNOW that such orders are likely to be given again, and we are prepared to refuse those orders.

[Moderator]

That is true.

I only seek clarity in the law. Murder needs to be defined, clearly. Currently, there is MUCH to be clarified. Right now, the gender of the parent killing the child, and how well-developed the child is and whether the parent wants the child dead, is what determines whether it is murder, or merely choice.

That is terrible and conflicting law.

As much as I believe it should be a choice that a woman makes and no one else's, I don't personally believe in abortions beyond the first trimester unless it is for reasons of danger to the health of the mother or to deliver a fetus that has died (that procedure is still termed a medical abortion). In this day and age, pregnancy can be detected at a very early stage, long before a fetus is viable. For me, it's about when does human life begin, not just the potential for human life, but an actual human life that would survive birth. I would probably agree with you that a third trimester abortion is murdering a child and should only be allowed if carrying to term or delivering prematurely was not a medical option. But that's my view and I would fight tooth and nail for another woman to have the right to make her own choices and live with the consequences. And I feel that strongly even though I'm a mother, have lost a child, and might not even be here had abortion been legal when my mother became pregnant with me. You've expounded frequently on freedom and anything that would infringe it and IMO that's also what this is about--the freedom of a woman to make a choice about her body and deal with the choices as she sees fit.

[CorbinKale]

As much as I believe it should be a choice that a woman makes and no one else's, I don't personally believe in abortions beyond the first trimester unless it is for reasons of danger to the health of the mother or to deliver a fetus that has died (that procedure is still termed a medical abortion). In this day and age, pregnancy can be detected at a very early stage, long before a fetus is viable. For me, it's about when does human life begin, not just the potential for human life, but an actual human life that would survive birth. I would probably agree with you that a third trimester abortion is murdering a child and should only be allowed if carrying to term or delivering prematurely was not a medical option. But that's my view and I would fight tooth and nail for another woman to have the right to make her own choices and live with the consequences. And I feel that strongly even though I'm a mother, have lost a child, and might not even be here had abortion been legal when my mother became pregnant with me. You've expounded frequently on freedom and anything that would infringe it and IMO that's also what this is about--the freedom of a woman to make a choice about her body and deal with the choices as she sees fit.

I am happy that you weren't aborted. The world is a better place because you are in it, Marsha.

[Moderator]

Thank you. I also believe that my, and everyone's for that matter, soul transcends the physical body and that I would have been here even if she had--but with a different parent--if it was meant for me to be here in this time and place. Which apparently it is, because here I am.

[hossenpepper]

For me, it's about when does human life begin, not just the potential for human life, but an actual human life that would survive birth.

But MM, you must remember this is the ideology you are up against here:

[Tery]

Disgusting.