Religious Discussion...

[Jordan]

The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy nor Roman nor an empire. Discuss. [1]

[PatInTheHat]

Couldn't be holy, I don't think, because I don't remember any mention of "God" actually giving it the thumbs up on His/Her/It's grace, in any official capacity at any rate, or at least in any the Heavenly PR Ltd. press kit I've ever read (does the omnipotent One still do business with those hacks?...I think they're the geniuses that did the work on the Edsel)

As for it being actually Roman, I believe its like any good business venture, whether it's "Empire" building or building mini malls, it's all about location location location, and after all, it did end up with the home office in Rome.
Like if say Wal Mart ends up moving it's corporate HQ to China one day, would it still be considered an "American" company, you know, once the historians & Showtime get hold of the story...The Great Wal Mart of China Story!
(come on, you knew that was comin' right)

I gotta give some empirical thought to the empire thing.
I mean it could just be considered a monster network of loose civil/municipal(ish) societies, with no true all encompassing central government.
Empire sure does look really spiffy on a company logo, but I'm not sure that actually meets the true definition of "Empire".
They did some conquering sure, but they didn't really take over, in the real sense, most of their conquests...really great organizers & builders though!

On the other hand, they knew how to do the iron fist/velvet glove, hearts & minds thing like pros.
Building roads to be connected, developing infrastructure, governance & keeping the populace happy while at the same time under control by utilizing all of that, along with the threat of a governed force 'o course, could certainly be considered Empire building by most reasonable standards.
Some people say potato, and some people say..well everybody I know says potato, but hopefully I got out my drift.

"The Aspiring To Be Holy With HQ Finally Based In Rome Organization"
Hmm, now that just doesn't seem to roll off the tongue quite so elegant now does it, but ya know, it kinda grows on you after you say it a few times.

[Srbo]

The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy nor Roman nor an empire. Discuss. [1]

Is this a fact or your opinion, Jordan?
Since you said this in the rules:

12.Quote sources and numbers. Something presented as a fact should list the source unless it is an indisputable fact.
13.Do not present opinion as facts. If it is just an opinion, i.e. cannot be supported by citing sources, state it as an opinion.

So, I`m going to assume it`s your opinion.
I agree that it was not holy, it`s a fact that it wasn`t Roman but ruled by a Roman emperor, but it was an empire.
I mean, it included all these parts of Europe, and if that can not be called an empire, then I don`t know what can:

The territories and dominion of the Holy Roman Empire in terms of present-day states comprised Germany (except Southern Schleswig), Austria (except Burgenland), the Czech Republic, Switzerland and Liechtenstein, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, and Slovenia (except Prekmurje), besides significant parts of eastern France (mainly Artois, Alsace, Franche-Comté, Savoie and Lorraine), northern Italy (mainly Lombardy, Piedmont, Emilia-Romagna, Tuscany, and South Tyrol), and western Poland (mainly Silesia, Pomerania, and Neumark).

Source: Holy_Roman_Empire

[Carri]

I like the way you think, Jordan.

[GNTLGNT]

Ah, a student of Voltaire perhaps? Being power hungry as an individual or group does not make one Holy-so much has been done over Millennia "in the name of God"-that we should have been struck down long ago. Roman? For much of it's history, Rome was not even included within it's borders. Empire? Only if you agree that an "Empire" could eventually be subdivided into hundreds of individual entities...

[Becks19]

The holy Roman empire did not include "Rome" in it's borders therefore, how could it be called the Holy Roman Empire.....TY for the interesting history read.. (still working on it)

[Becks19]

(Wikipedia source) Conrad III came to the throne in 1138. He was the first ruler of the Hohenstaufen dynasty; the Hohenstaufen was to restore the glory of the Empire, albeit under the new conditions of the 1122 Concordat of Worms. It was Frederick I "Barbarossa" (king 1152, Emperor 1155–1190) who first called the Empire "holy", with which he intended to address mainly law and legislation.__________ In order to solve the problem that the emperor was (after the Investiture Controversy) no longer as able to use the church as a mechanism to maintain power.---------- So it was simply called Holy and they used the Church to gain power and lands.

[CorbinKale]

Besides...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso

[KyleKarabekian]

So, I`m going to assume it`s your opinion.
I agree that it was not holy, it`s a fact that it wasn`t Roman but ruled by a Roman emperor, but it was an empire.
I mean, it included all these parts of Europe, and if that can not be called an empire, then I don`t know what can:

Don't you think he just said that to get us to discuss this? It could be his opinion, but then again it could just be a clever way to get us to start a discussion.

[Srbo]

Don't you think he just said that to get us to discuss this? It could be his opinion, but then again it could just be a clever way to get us to start a discussion.

Of course I think that.
It`s not like I expected he`s going to debate here with us.