Mores, Societal Views, Tolerance and Consequences

[Sigmund]

There is a show on MTV called "16 and Pregnant". It shows young women with their boyfriends going through high school, doctor's appointments, living and coping with being teens, pregnant and life.
My son attends a magnet scholl that focuses on science, math and engineering and has very high standards. Within 6 weeks of every scholl year 1/4 to 1/3 of children transfer out because they and/or their parents cannot keep up with the curriculum. As you can guess the children are all little geeks and nerds to some extent or other and they like the school because they fit in. A few weeks ago there was a trumor that one of the girls there might be (whisper) pregnant. The kids were all talking about it and it seemed everyone was agog.
In the neighboring middle and high schools pregnant teens are roaming around and no one gives them a second glance.
In SK "It" Ben Hanson and his mother are forced to move in with family because "no one in this family is going on public assistance."
I cashiered at a major grocery store for 3-4 years and it seemed food stamps and welfare was THE family business.
In my day girls didn't "do it" for a number of reasons but mainly because if you got pregnant you were sent to "visit family" (read: home for unwed mothers and forced adoption) and you were labeled for life.
In the day you might only have bread and potato soup to eat but dad gum it, it was your bread and potato that YOU paid for and not charity.
On the one hand I'm glad there is no longer shunning or wire hanger abortions but...14+ year old pregnant girls running around is the norm? Average?
Everyone has needed help in one way or another, especially now in this economy and theres no shame in taking help (weeks, months) to get back on your feet but...3 generations on public housing, medicaid, food stamps and child care?
Where does society tolerance and understanding go from being positive and supportive to enabiling and entitlement?

[Sigmund]

I posted this thread because I was alarmed and perplexed. I wanted to see what others on the SKMB had to say, opinions, thoughts, perspectives and/or points of view. I noticed that some people viewed the thread and that no one replied. Did I step over the line? Anyone?

[JohnDalglish]

Hi,

No, you didn't step over the line, I just didn't have anything to say on the subject (guess no-one else had either).

Long days and pleasant nights

[wally wonder]

...sometimes there doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason to why some threads get posts and others don't, sigmund...i could go on theorizing but i'd probably just end up confusing both of us

...dunno if pregnant teens is the norm...more of them, sounds like....and like everything else that can be upsetting, it's difficult to attribute one or a few causes to it, and even the effect if different from place to place........caught something on tv the other day related to this....can't remember if it was bill o'reilly....i think it was, and he seemed surprised that the young teenage mothers were acting like, well mothers, caring for their babies...that part of the segment was interesting, and i may be remembering it wrong...

....a friend and his girlfriend got pregnant whilst i was in school, they had their baby over the summer, graduated as a married couple, w/one child, the child went on to grow, was valedictorian of her class, and is now a lawyer...lol!...ole ray and sandy....who'd a thunk it.

...for better or worse, society changes....didn't people at one time marry younger than most marry (if they do, at all) today, have kids, go through life, the whole nine yards?

....god takes a lot of rap for letting things happen, at least, that's one take on events, one among many....but there is also something in the bible about god being able to lead, gently, those w/young....and maybe the support that seems to enable more of same is god's way of working through others to do something about the millions that are aborted.....

[frisbee]

Sigmund, I think you pose a very interesting question regarding when does help go from being supportive to being an entitlement. IMHO it crosses that line when the help becomes permanent. Or, when it becomes easier to remain on the "help" than it is to solve whatever problem you have yourself. A good example of this, in my view, is the current extension of unemployment benefits. I'm all for helping people for a few months while they are in transition. However, now that it is being extended beyond 6 months federally what is happening is that you are now paying people to not work. People will remain out of work for longer. I believe we do a poor job in this country of actually helping those who can't take care of themselves and would be happy if more of my tax dollars went in that direction. However, we give way too much to able bodied people with no mental or physical handicaps. In an effort to be "nice" we are actually hurting them.

[Doc Wilson]

Teenaged pregnancy has become a fact of life, especially among the uneducated. I recently moved back to rural Louisiana after living for the past 20 years and it seems like all my younger female relatives have gone crazy having kids with multiple daddys before they are out of high school. It wasn't like that here when I left in the 80s.

Its not going to be like that with my girls. As soon as they show the slightest interest in boys they are going on birth control. I hate to do it, but no way I am raising any more babies and I can't abide abortion.

[Perse Jr.]

I am a conservative, so I believe my "raw" opinions on this topic would be a bit too much to post. I will say, however, that if a systems exists from which a person can or does receive aid (food stamps, etc.), that person should not be completely held accountable for "using the system." If I were to become unemployed, given the times, I would certainly exercise my right to collect the appropriate amount of unemployment benefits.

Are there people out there who abuse the system? Absolutely. Are there people out there who deserve and need the help? Absolutely.

As far as teenage pregnancy goes; I think society and the media are painting a poor picture of what it's like to be a preganant teen, wed or unwed. I think the show on MTV (which I've watched) is an awful model for kids about the real trials and tribulations of being a parent. Good mores/values start in the home. Parents need to be more open with their children. They need to be more consistent, honest role models.

[arista]

I was just pondering this one for a second.. I truely feel for these young mom's..The boys in that particular show, seem to be not supportive of their pregnant girlfriends(for the most part). The girl is left trying to raise the baby and go back to school. I also feel for the babies.. In regards to public assistance, I work with elderly who have worked their entire lives and yet somehow due to medical expenses are now having to ask for public assistance and the worse thing is..they don't always get the assistance they need. They choose between medical expenses and grocercies.

[Lencho_of_the_Apes]

I don't have any opinions on the teenaged pregnancy issue... BUT ...

When I see statements like this one

...3 generations on public housing, medicaid, food stamps and child care?
Where does society tolerance and understanding go from being positive and supportive to enabiling and entitlement?

I always wonder whether the writer is talking about REAL, objective, fact-based empirical information or statistics about welfare recipients and possible abuses of that system, or whether they merely "BELIEVE" that there's an underclass that lives as welfare recipients and doesn't care about working or changing their status. 'Believing' something in the absence of facts is just an emotion, it isn't ... you know... based in reality in any way. Do you have solid information about the people you're describing?

Maybe you do, I'll give you that much credit. But I do always, always wonder.

We all float down here.

[Snaggletooth]

There are so many issues in your original post that I had to think awhile before posting a response. As usual, I have an opinion on everything.....but the main issue for me is the culture of dependency that seems to thrive amongst certain socioeconomic groups. Living off the government, in other words. This is learned behavior, and as you stated, it goes on for generations until someone in that family/group breaks the cycle. It isn't a matter of judging someone to be a bum, freeloader or whatever. These folks have never been properly motivated to get off the public dole. It's their comfort zone. As far as teenage pregnancy is concerned, it's just my opinion that the birds and the bees, and a post-birds-bees lecture are probably missing in many of these cases. Just a hunch on my part. Oh yeah, lack of family values as well. (God, I hate that phrase but I don't know what else to call it)