A Very English Revenge...

[aptpupil]

I found this one interesting, and possibly the catalyst for an enlightening "crime and punishment" debate, but then again, what do I know?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/b...ts/8413787.stm

Basically, it's a story about an Asian businessman in the south of England who managed to break free after he and his family had been tied up in his home by three burglars (also Asian, apparently). He then chased one of the burglars along the street and hit him across the head with a cricket bat, unfortunately causing brain damage as a consequence.

The businessman has now been jailed for 30 months for his actions.

There is slightly more to the incident than this as you can see if you follow the link, but I'm just curious as to how other SKMB members view this example of "instant justice". If you were burgled, tied up with your family, and placed in fear, would you feel justified in handing out physical punishment to your assailant if you could pursue him and catch him then and there?

[Natjen26]

In theory I don't agree with his actions. If everyone served their own kind of justice, where would it all end. With the exception of self-defense, there's a legal system to pursue the criminal.

But considered emotionally, if for instance someone hurt someone I love, then I would react if I could. In that regard I fully justify his actions. But still, rash actions, even when challenged, have to have consequences.

[mstay]

I don't think "unfortunately" is a good choice of words. I think the man that was tied up has every right to defend himself and his family. He should not have been jailed IMO.

[Becks19]

Apt, Once the assailant was no longer on the victims property there was no longer a threat. To chase after him (with his brother) far off of his property was wrong IMHO. I can see the justification for violence if the perpetrator was still in the home. (therefore, an immediate threat) I think he let his rage take over and made a serious mistake. I feel sympathy for what he and his family endured but, he made it worse. (Why couldn't he just be relieved that the assailant was gone and his family was OK??)

[Nutty Bavarian]

If I was able to break free while they were still inside the house...all bets are off. That is if they are, or seem to plan on hurting myself or my family.

But if they were in the processs of getting away I would try and remember as many details as I could for police. Although I would be tempted to beat the crap out them, we need to try and control ourselves now a days.

I have worked very hard to gain the things I own. Are they worth my life? No way. But I won't sit idly by and let someone come into my home without a fight. People are so unpredictable that there is no telling what they are really there for.

I won't say the man was wrong, but he definately lost his self control. That could make him just as dangerous as the people that broke into his home.

[PatInTheHat]

Well all of the, it really wasn't the right thing to do, because of whatever, is all well and good, and I can even kinda agree as an outsider looking in, and in a legalish kinda way of course, but (I loves them buts, yeah well), that particular rat bastid didn't get away, and for at least during his fortunate convalesence (I mean afterall, he's not dead, and evidently he deserved it, right?..that's a win/win in my book), he sure wasn't going to be be pulling that trick again on some other victim(s)...saying brain damage would even allow it...which is assuming he didn't already have brain damage causing his rather poor choices in social skills.

There just ain't containing that kind of rage your likely to feel after an ordeal involving ones family..maybe if it was just him, but not family (besides, terrorizing mine is my job..nay, my vocation).
But then again, again, I don't know the exact circumstances and all the particulars.
Now anyone else that got in a lick or two, had no call to get involved in any level of violence that I could legally, much less morally, justify.

I do know this, go monkeyin' around with my family & friends, will get you in whatever world of hurt I can bring down upon you, and I'm really not all that bad at that vindictive thing..eh, it's like a gift (but I'm not a vengance crazed murdeous lunatic either...honest..really).
I have absolutely no compunctions about thinking or even talking about it...would that make it premeditated?..oh well, all well that ends swelled.
I've had the ever livin' snot beat out of me more times than I care to count, and I admit there has been some times where a little payback was involved, but nothing close to that level, in fact, not even hardly to an equal level, but rather like just sending a message.
Most times however, it just ain't worth it for a myriad of reasons.

But involve my familiy?
Ya best have a better plan than that Apple Dumpling Gang had, 'cause I have enough sense to drag you back onto my property..hmm, maybe that's an American thing.
Without that possibility, I'm more than willing to take my lumps in the system, I except that..at the time I might not be very happy about it, but I've been in the pokey before (always a chance I will again), and it simply is what it is, this social responsibility thing is.
(which may somewhat explain why I've always much prefered living way out in the boonies)

Now that all pervasive socially responsible comment by the judge, on how that kind of vigilante justice will lead to the fall of civilization as we know it yada yada, is just plain stupid...since when exactly?
Although there was somewhat of a mob mentality, the actual victim gave actual chase and gave actual real time justice, to the actual criminal.
Now if it was days later and a posse was sent out to get retribution with that mob mentality, hunting and searching for some Asian guy, that would be a cricket bat of different color.
The judge had to make the point however, because we do so need our little reminders in order to keep mob rule from ruling the day.
Which is even stupider than the comment really, but that's who we are.

My best guess is, that if there's no shady circumstances, the victim dude may very well get some leniency.
Judge & the system makes it point, dude gets a slap, but got his justice...butthead criminal gets plenty of bed rest and never has to bother chewing his food, cricket bat sales soar, economy recovers..again a win/win.

[Bryan James]

Bang him up when the threat remained on the premises, no problem.

Subdue (rear-naked choke, kimura, etc.) {non-lethal} the guy on the street while waiting for police? No problem.

Like other posters have said, based on both English and American Common Law, once the threat has passed beyond the curtilage, protective actions must be reasonably diminished.

I don't blame the guy. I might do the same in a similar situation. Thirty months seems extreme...I did not read the article, though.

~BJS

[Mr. Jingles]

There was a movie out last year with Stephen Dorf and Val Kilmer called "Felon", which is kinda similar. Awesome movie, but it just goes to show you how the law seems to be very slippery at times.

I personally think if people are threatening your life, your family, on your terf, they deserve whatever they get in return. God help the SOB that comes into my home and tries that crap with my family.

This poor guy was defending his family. He should have gotten a medal.

[Srbo]

God, would I ever like to wake up just one day, one day for all my life where I didn`t hear about ANY act of violence of ANY kind in the whole wide World.

Not even someone saying a rude word, nevermind physical violence, wars etc...

I think that would be the day we either saw God or the World would come to an end, forget the Mayans and 2012...

Yeah, I know...dream on...

[Mr. Jingles]

Apt, Once the assailant was no longer on the victims property there was no longer a threat. To chase after him (with his brother) far off of his property was wrong IMHO. I can see the justification for violence if the perpetrator was still in the home. (therefore, an immediate threat) I think he let his rage take over and made a serious mistake. I feel sympathy for what he and his family endured but, he made it worse. (Why couldn't he just be relieved that the assailant was gone and his family was OK??)

I disagree, Mookie. If someone did that to me or my family and got away, and I found out who they were later and knew where they were, I'd be on them like snot on a tissue.