Inhumane

**aptpupil** · September 18th, 2009

Here I go again. I can't help myself!

A couple of days ago, the state of Ohio tried and failed to execute convicted murderer Romell Broom for a crime committed 25 years ago, because they were unable to find a vein into which they could place the lethal injection. Apparently, the attempt to take his life lasted for two hours, by which time Broom was in pain and mental anguish which had reduced him to tears. I can barely comprehend how traumatising this event must have been for him. Of course, the date will simply be rescheduled, and Romell Broom can spend his final days fearing not only his death, but the possible repetition of the whole macabre episode.

The USA, or at least parts of it, stands alone amongst nations of the civilised Western world in sanctioning the death penalty, whether it be by hanging, electric chair, or lethal injection, and it seems, to me at least, to be a practice that reflects very badly on the society that endorses it. I personally spent many years campaigning, through the medium of letter-writing on behalf of Amnesty International, for an end to this barbaric remnant of the dark ages, but there is obviously still a long way to go.

"Now my waiting's almost over
As the final hour drags by
And I ain't about to tell you
That I don't deserve to die
But there's twenty-seven men here
Mostly black and brown and poor
Maybe most of them are guilty
Who are you to say for sure?
So when the preacher comes to get me
And they shave off all my hair
Could you take that long walk with me
Knowing Hell is waiting there?
Could you pull that switch yourself sir
With a sure and steady hand
And could you still tell yourself
That you're better than I am?"

Steve Earle "Billy Austin".

**Nero** · September 18th, 2009

Originally Posted by aptpupil

Here I go again. I can't help myself!

A couple of days ago, the state of Ohio tried and failed to execute convicted murderer Romell Broom for a crime committed 25 years ago, because they were unable to find a vein into which they could place the lethal injection. Apparently, the attempt to take his life lasted for two hours, by which time Broom was in pain and mental anguish which had reduced him to tears. I can barely comprehend how traumatising this event must have been for him. Of course, the date will simply be rescheduled, and Romell Broom can spend his final days fearing not only his death, but the possible repetition of the whole macabre episode.

The USA, or at least parts of it, stands alone amongst nations of the civilised Western world in sanctioning the death penalty, whether it be by hanging, electric chair, or lethal injection, and it seems, to me at least, to be a practice that reflects very badly on the society that endorses it. I personally spent many years campaigning, through the medium of letter-writing on behalf of Amnesty International, for an end to this barbaric remnant of the dark ages, but there is obviously still a long way to go.

"Now my waiting's almost over
As the final hour drags by
And I ain't about to tell you
That I don't deserve to die
But there's twenty-seven men here
Mostly black and brown and poor
Maybe most of them are guilty
Who are you to say for sure?
So when the preacher comes to get me
And they shave off all my hair
Could you take that long walk with me
Knowing Hell is waiting there?
Could you pull that switch yourself sir
With a sure and steady hand
And could you still tell yourself
That you're better than I am?"

Steve Earle "Billy Austin".

I heard about this one the other day. They couldn't find a good vein because the guy had done so much heroin throughout his life.

Look, I am not for the death penalty myself. Especially not one that's drawn out like this. They should have planned it out better, should have anticipated a vein issue due to his drugtype history which was well known.

But... I scratch my head at how this guy and his attorney could whine over a bunch of pinpricks when he wasn't above raping and stabbing a little girl to death.

**Ubasti** · September 18th, 2009

I don't have a problem with the death penalty, but I do have a problem with mistakes in the process which end up causing pain and suffering for both the convict and, I would think, for the victims and their families. I'm sure there's probably some sense of pleasure when you're watching some one who brutally killed a love one suffer their own misery, but I would imagine that the point would come where you would be disturbed by the prolonging of it.

It inexcusable that another means of execution wasn't considered when his long term drug use was well known. Aren't medical professionals supposed to be involved in an execution? Wouldn't they have seen his medical records, etc. and been aware of the fact that his veins would be in such bad shape?

**poisonbat** · September 18th, 2009

Why didn't they simply put it in his neck? Great veins there. It would have saved the misery of everyone involved. I am pro death penalty in extreme cases. Child rapers and murderers are at the top of my list.

**Todash** · September 18th, 2009

Originally Posted by aptpupil

Here I go again. I can't help myself!

Can't, huh?

Here is my exact post on a similar thread some months back. I liked this post and so I'm repeating myself.

There are two separate issues here.

1. Can a person commit a crime that has as its proper punishment the forfeiture of that person's life? Yes, I think so.

2. Is society capable of correctly determining who those people are? Considering that 17 people have been freed from death row in the US so far, exonerated by DNA evidence, I would have to say no. Seventeen people freed, and how many more went to their graves innocent? No one knows. When an individual kills an innocent person, we call that murder and punish accordingly. When the state kills an innocent person, there are no repercussions. "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice."

**Nero** · September 18th, 2009

Originally Posted by Todash

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice."[/COLOR]

Gandalf speaks true.

**Roseasharn** · September 18th, 2009

I am, generally speaking, uncomfortable with this topic.
Here's why: there is a part of me that says because all the other liberals around me are all "Capital Punishment is WRONG" that I should think the same. And I think I might.
But here's where it gets complicated.
I'm far more comfortable with hot vengeance than I am with cold execution. I don't think I say that proudly, in fact, I'm a little bewildered by it. When we were living in the midwest, I knew a man who killed another man. And he killed that other man because that other man took his three year old son by the ankles and slammed him against a wall until he died. All the father did was shoot the guy who did it (his ex-wife's new boyfriend, by the way) and the guy died.
I would have done much worse.
Now, I am also not proud of that fact. But I think self knowledge is important and I was in therapy for a lot of years learning how to control my own very serious anger problem.
But if you killed my kid on purpose, I can't say that I wouldn't lose all my coping skills.
So vengeance makes very real sense to me when it has to do with children. A grown adult with all of their faculties intact stands a fair chance of fighting if someone tries to take them down.
Children, the elderly and animals do not.
But a country that allows crimes of vengeance to go unpunished generally has to deal with blood feuds and those aren't really a good idea. What I think is an offense worthy of death, someone else might think is only worth a severe beating.
So then the state steps in.
And now we have to ask ourselves: is it a good idea to give the state the power to kill us, criminals or not.
EEK.
Heavy question, no?
And my answer is, I don't know.
Because for me there is no satisfaction in execution. No debt is paid there. The only thing it provides is the safety of knowing that someone who is capable of killing in cold blood is no longer a threat. And that can be achieved by locking them up forever.
But, uh, is that really humane, either?
I'd personally rather die.
Seriously, pro-lifers of the world: why do you care so little for quality of life?

**Damaris** · September 18th, 2009

I used to favor the death penalty. In an ideal system I might still. But I have seen far too many innocent people convicted of crimes they did not do. Our justice system is a complete farce, and any pretense of "justice" is a blatant lie. So I do not support the death penalty. Because if even 5% of the people in jail or prison are not guilty of the crime(s) they are charged with, that is 120,000 innocent people imprisoned. That's the population of Hartford, Connecticut. Or Bellevue, Washington. Or every man, woman, and child of Charleston, South Carolina, plus another 10,000, falsely imprisoned by our "justice system." And that's using the unrealistically low rate of 5%. Bump it up to the more widely accepted 10% and you're talking the population of Orlando, Florida. Falsely imprisoned. I'm not okay with that. Everything else aside, that should be enough to stop the practice of execution. That it doesn't says a good deal more about our government - and our nation as a whole - than I like to admit.

**~Ally~** · September 20th, 2009

OK I know I shouldn't reply to this one but like you Drew, sometime's I just can't help myself.
Whether this animals crime was commited 25years ago or even 25minutes ago is irrelevant in my eyes. The fact is he DID commit the crime!
Comprehension of how "traumatic" the non-event of his imminent death must have been for him is not something I would necessarily be worrying my pretty head over.

After all he is a grown man, very capable of understanding what was coming to him, due to his own actions. Unlike the girl he raped and murdered. I only hope that girl will not have had a chance to comprehend what was happening to her, as that is what I class as traumatic and inhumane.

If I had a chance to watch the man die who kidnapped, tortured and raped MY friend when I was a child then believe me I would be sitting in the front row. Her family are left with constant reminders of what she should have been achieving in life, but because of some evil animal she never had the chance to experience much. When someone close to you suffers this kind of death maybe your compassion for the perpetrator may waver just a little.