Assorted Discussion Questions (Plague Chapters)

[aeroplane]

Just some stuff I've always wondered or thought about from the superflu chapters. These are a combination of general and specific questions.


1. To be truthful, what good would it have done even if the military and government had been completely honest about the nature of Captain Trips, as opposed to a massive cover-up? Over 99% of the population was going to die anyway.


2. Whatever became of Len Creighton? Unless I missed something, my best guess is his fate has something to do with the Roland Gibbs/Brother Zeno takeover of the radio station. But since Creighton's location is always a little vague, I have never been sure of what happens to him. The reason I never was certain that Gibbs kills Len is that Gibbs takes over a radio station roughly 5 minutes after Creighton is done talking on the radio to "David."

Otherwise I take it we're to assume he eventually catches Captain Trips and sees his end that way?


3. With that said, the timeline jumps back and forth a little with all of the different characters and locations we read about between June 25th and June 27th, or so. Does Elder get his so-called "orders" to kill Stu from Creighton or somebody else entirely? Otherwise would we assume Elder just had vague directives to kill Stu before he died if he was near death and the Stovington center had become infected?


4. So what sort of medical attention does the President of the United States get when he comes down with the superflu and how would one detail his final days?


5. Lastly, this isn't so much a question but I always wanted to know a little more about the apparent tension between Starkey and the President. On more than one occasion, it comes up that he just doesn't like him.

[Checkman]

Ahhh a man after my own heart.

I actually liked General Starkey and Major Creighton. They strike me as honorable men who believed in their choosen career field and their country. But war is a dirty business as is the business of being an empire. They are soldiers who serve their country as ordered. This time they got a dirty deal.

The military was ordered by the president (essentially) to try to conduct a massive quarantine and keep Captain Tripps under control. Sure it was like spitting into a strong headwind but I guess they thought it was worth a try. Also lets make a nod to reality. Mr. King wrote the bulk of the novel in 1974/75. It was the age of Watergate, Vietnam etc. The "establishment" was believed to be all about avoidance and coveriing up it's screw-ups. And in all fairness that was SOP during the fifties and sixties.

No Major Creighton is talking to David over the radio. David is in Los Angeles. He's barricaded himself in the Skylight Room of the Bank of America building which was the building (at ground zero) destroyed by the aliens in Independence Day by the way. Major Creighton is still at Project Blue which is somewhere in the Mojave Desert. David is killed by a mob when they break into the Skylight Room though he does take out a few with his recoiless rifle. There is some noise of a firefight and then the radio transmission is cut of.

Brother Zeno/Sergeant First Class Gibbs is broadcasting from San Francisco until a Major Nunn leads an attack against Zeno and his followers. For a few moments Major Nunn is in control of the radio then everything goes to hell and the last thing heard from San Francisco is gunfire and somebody screaming "Death to the war-pigs"

Two different locations. Two different groups.

I like to think that Major Creighton was immune to Captain Trips. He soldiers on until it' s obvious everything has fallen apart which is apparent by his transmission to David. But Creighton is an experienced soldier, an educated man probably a combat veteran, possibly Special Forces (just because I see him that way). I think that Creighton would have gone to ground for awhile and just dealt with the dreams until they lost their intensity.

I see him opting for the third party neutrality stance. He's had enough of war. Also I still think Creighton is a good guy and he would see Flagg for what he really is. Creighton didn't make a career out of the United States Army because he's a Nazi. He believes in the constituion. I spent 14 years in the Army and I believe in our system. So that's where I'm coming from.

I think that Creighton would have choosen Boulder but he might have realized it would be best for things to settle before joining the Free Zone. Also I think once he did join he would be very low profile for obvious reasons. Remember there are some tough,hard types who choose Boulder. Petrella for one. The guy who takes Stu's place as town marshall and Petrella is a real law and order type, but he choose Boulder not Flagg. So why not Creighton?

No the termination order regarding Stu would have come from D.C. I see Creighton concluding that if Stu is immune then more power to him and good luck. What would be the point of killing Stu at such a late point in the game? No that smacks of some petty functionary giving that order.

The president gets the best attention there is. But it's obvious he is sick during his broadcast. So it goes.

Many a high ranking general/admiral has not liked a serving President. And I'm sure that there has been many a President who felt the same about his generals. For example FDR and Admiral Nimitz didn't always see eye to eye, but there was a war to fight. So they got on with their work. They are adults and expected to work together.

So does this help?

[aeroplane]

Your reply does help and puts things into perspective. Plus I find it beneficial to get a response from someone with a military background.

Just from reading the early chapters, I found it slightly difficult to tell exactly where Creighton (and Starkey) were located, so I appreciate having that cleared up. The Major picked up where the General left off and did what he could.

And as I stated in my original post, I believe that things were pretty much destined to turn out the same way whether there was a massive cover-up or not. Coming right out and giving every minute detail about Captain Trips or the situation in general in the newspapers and on TV wasn't really going to change things one iota. Over 99% communicability says all anyone needs to know about how pointless it would have been to be completely forthcoming.

Assuming you saw the miniseries, how do you think Starkey and The Major (named Len in the movie but with a different last name) turned out?

[Checkman]

Your reply does help and puts things into perspective. Plus I find it beneficial to get a response from someone with a military background.

Just from reading the early chapters, I found it slightly difficult to tell exactly where Creighton (and Starkey) were located, so I appreciate having that cleared up. The Major picked up where the General left off and did what he could.

And as I stated in my original post, I believe that things were pretty much destined to turn out the same way whether there was a massive cover-up or not. Coming right out and giving every minute detail about Captain Trips or the situation in general in the newspapers and on TV wasn't really going to change things one iota. Over 99% communicability says all anyone needs to know about how pointless it would have been to be completely forthcoming.

Assuming you saw the miniseries, how do you think Starkey and The Major (named Len in the movie but with a different last name) turned out?

I like Ed Harris and I liked his interpetation of Starkey. I pictured Starkey as being more mellow, somber and very unflappable. A career soldier who was very used to situations that had gone to hell and understood the best way to go wasto stay calm. But Harris brought a slightly crazy intensity which also worked. His Starkey was a guy who was probably a real hell raiser on the battlefield. I got the impression from his depiction that Starkey was never happy about getting Project Blue. An unhonorable, dirty assignment. Yes he orders the reporters killed but he dosen't like it.

The actor playing Len was good as well. Harris and that other actor (look him up on imdb) are long time friends and it came out in their scenes together.

[K4driver]

I think that they were pretty close in the comics. and I do agree that Len ended up in Boulder....by then stripped of his honor as an American soldier, and wanting to forget it. But he probably came to boulder, and may have worked his way to being the next law and Justice person...or at least on the council.

[aeroplane]

Another thing I always wondered about the plague chapters would be related to other (important) immunes.

It would seem there would be well-known actors, Major League Baseball/NFL players, authors or even people in the Senate that would have been immune and thus survived.

You see a paragraph where Larry remembers being at Yankee Stadium (?) watching Rickey Henderson play ball. Now how about a guy like him being immune? Or Nolan Ryan? Or Terry Bradshaw of the NFL?

Obviously it is difficult for SK to include "real" people like those in a fiction book, to any great length. And of course anyone of that ilk who shows up in Boulder or Vegas will be "just another guy."

But you have to think that some fairly important and famous people would have survived the flu or events as depicted in "No Great Loss."

As for Len, he'd blend in pretty well since none of the surviving characters ever met him or even knew about his existence/role anyway. Just nod and say he was in the military then move on.

And although he is clearly painted as a musician known only for "that song", instead of his name (like any one hit wonder), I would have expected somebody to recognize Larry Underwood's name as a musician they had heard on the radio.

[aeroplane]

So the comics also give no specific information as to what became of Len Creighton?

Can we safely believe none of the men working under him at whatever location he was in turned on him?

Can we also assume he gave the orders to eliminate Redman, since Starkey and the President were dead, in effect leaving Len in charge of things in the US when you sit down and think about it.

[Checkman]

No the comics don't say either. They are pretty faithful to the novel so I didn't expect them to offer any further speculation as to Creighton's fate.

I figure the troops assignned to the Project were of a different caliber. they would probably all have Top Secret clearances and understand the nature of their assignment or duty. In my 14 years as a soldier I served in the Armor Corp (tanks), Military Intelligence and the Signal Corp (communications). Whne I was in Military Intelligence I world closely with infantry and aviation (helicopters) soldiers. There are differences between the folks who go into those different branches. Not bad difference, but differences. Most infantry soldiers are in the late teens and early twenties and are like young men all over the world. MI and Siganl Corp tends to have older troops (but not always) who are more technically oriented. Many enlisted MI soldiers have some college and more than a few (such as me) have four year degrees.

In the early seventies whne SK wrote the novel the Army still had a large percentage of draftees in the ranks. Especially in the infantry and morale was very bad. In the years immediately following Vietnam things were shaky all over the military - not just the Army infantry units. The only branch that was probably still pretty tight would have been the Marine Corp and even they Marines were forced to take draftees in the last few years of the Vietnam War. Also many of the troops out in the different locations would have been NAtional Guard troops. I spent a few years in the Gaurd and Guardsmen are usually older part time soldiers. They have families, professions in the civilan world and are connected to the local communities where their respective units are based. With a disaster like Capt. Tripps the Guardsmen might have been acting out of rage and frustration. They could have served as a catalyst for the breakdown of discipline. The troops assignned to the Project would have probably been career military, educated, technically oriented and not as agressive as your typical 19 year old private in the infantry. Basically like a NASA technician in uniform. So no I don't see them losing control. But who knows?

Even though the President is dead and Starkey has offed himself there is still a chain of command. The Chiefs of Staff, Vice President etc. Somebody else could ahve given the order.

[moeaholic]

one thing that kind of bugs me about the stand is how a lot of the superflu victims happened to die doing things that seem routine. at the compound where the outbreak first happens, the entire cafeteria is full of people that seem to have been just eating when they died. tons of cars out in public clogging streets with people behind the wheel. i mean, every death that's described in the story, the person goes through quite a sickness and is at a point where they don't even know what's going on around them. i know campion was driving while he was looking death in the eye and i'm sure there were people that were still capable of functioning in a very limited capacity even though they were very sick, but it just seems staggering to me how many people were doing day to day things when they died.

one other thing, stu's nurse that sneezes on her way to see him and doesn't think twice about it, even though there's a large sign at the nurses station that says report any kind of sickness, no matter how little it is, and she sees that sign every day she's working and i'm sure the brass at the compound had hammered home to everyone that they have to report even a sniffle. i would have been able to take that characters reaction to her sneezing better if she thought "oh ****, i might be in some trouble here...but i know what they're doing to sick people, so i'm just going to keep this to myself."

don't get me wrong, i love this story....just a couple things that stick out in my mind.

[TPG555]

I am re-reading The Stand for the first time in about 20 years. Obviously, I forgot about a lot of the details but I just wanted to comment on the illness itself. How scary is that illness? It's symptoms are the common cold so most people would ignore the early stages. Then, in a lot of occasions, the fever breaks and the victims feel better before succumbing to death. Right now, I have a minor cold and I can't help but think about Captain Trips every time I cough. BTW, I'm never letting my germophobe wife read this book. She'd never sleep again.

Thanks, Mr. King!