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Originally Posted by Lily Sawyer
I've probably seen the movie but it's sooooo long ago it's too vague now. I'm aware how the media enjoys making a mockery of certain things. I may have read other SK books since I've been reading for a long, long time so at this point I just don't remember.
This isn't the kind of thing I'm talking about. What if one person believes the moon is made of cheese and another that it is rock? By what perspective could it be made to be made of cheese? I doesn't become cheese because of someone's sincere belief. Neither do a thousand differing and opposing "truths" become so just because of someone's sincere belief. I don't believe in this "create your own reality" stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatInTheHat
What you dismiss as the create your own reality stuff is very real to those who are of a different spiritual persuasion than yours. How you believe is your truth but we do not have any quantifying scientific way to verify that there is the God you (or others) believe in or to disprove those who think differently are not correct in their beliefs or even that you're all right, which is why it is called faith.Quote:
Originally Posted by vickilynn
Um, sure, mm hmm, 'k, hmm, that's exactly the same thing huh :umm:?Quote:
Originally Posted by vickilynn
Yeah I know that's not quite what your talking about, though t'would make it much more convenient for ya if it was, is what I'm reckonin'.
Not to be put too fine a point on it, but isn't "faith" exactly that? You have chosen to believe something that you cannot empirically prove. I suspect that anyone of a different opinion is going to suggest that you are simply living in a subjective reality of your own choosing. The reason we know the Moon is made of rock today is because of science. We have been there. We brought back rocks and not big hunks of cheese.Quote:
Originally Posted by vickilynn
Most religions are based on faith. You have every right to be as dismissive to the beliefs of others as you wish, but do not pretend that yours have anymore basis in provable fact. C.S. Lewis, a very popular writer was a devout Christian, but you would not deem him so. If you have read the various books in his Narnia series, specifically The Last Battle, you would find that Mr. Lewis made a very telling statement about God (personified as Aslan). In short, a Prince of another land approaches and speaks with Aslan to pay his respects but thinks he will not be judged worthy or allowed into Heaven. He states honestly that he never knew of Aslan and paid his respects to another entity. God (Aslan) replies that every good deed he ever did was automatically rendered to him. God (Aslan) indicates that salvation is indeed possible simply by living a good life. By your comments, Mr. Lewis would be a heretic for even suggesting this idea.
Unlike others, I'm not going to pile into you for being dedicated to your beliefs even if they are by nature exclusionary, intolerant, and self serving. What you are doing is a fulcrum of human nature. We all want to believe that we know the secret to life, the magic formula, and that we are somehow special (read better) than everyone else. It makes one feel included. Such notions clearly define the world in black and white in a way that is convenient and non-threatening. It is less work than trying to reconcile all these other ideas and philosophies. Faith comes good and bad. On the one hand it can help someone overcome impossible pain, problems, and provide a framework to get through the day. On the other hand, it is the spiritual version of Alexander cutting the Gordian Knot. Rather than solve the puzzle and seek truth, one take an intellectual shortcut (or end run).
Please bear in mind that I am not talking about the validity or your (or anyone else's) particular faith. Who is right and who is wrong is irrelevant to the discussion because nobody can prove anything. This brings us back to my first point and why people have "faith" to begin with. :) Discussions like this one, by their very nature, tend to be worthless. If you have faith, nothing anyone says or demonstrates (even if they can empirically prove you are wrong) is going to change your mind. Do you see where I'm going with this?
....duhhhhhh, where are da mouses Pat...huh, huh, huh?.....Quote:
Originally Posted by PatInTheHat
:eek2:Quote:
Originally Posted by GNTLGNT
They went dat away! >>>---------->
I like cheese.
As a basic statement--not wanting to delve too deeply here, at this moment in time--I'll simply say that God is the creator of all things.
ms mod @ 153& R gray @ 155: great, thoughtful stuff...love that cs lewis stuff... good call :y: