Politics is ruining my family

[Shasta]

Some of you have seen me write recently that my father and I do not agree on politics. I am a moderate Democrat and he is a hard-core Republican. In fact, I'd say he's pretty much tea-party.

Well, we've always been able to have debates and then move on. He says I'm the only Dem he knows that is well informed on both sides. He clearly doesn't talk to many Dems.....

Anyway, to make a long story short, he (like many other Republicans) seem to take it as a personal affront that Obama was re-elected. He's so angry. I don't get it. I don't remember Dems being this offensively angry when Gore lost. The whole thing is shocking me.

Anyway, I tried to call him on election night. No answer. Left a message asking him to call me. He didn't.

I called him the next night. No answer. Left him a message asking him to call me. He didn't.

Now, my dad is my best friend. We talk at least three times a week. I can't think of another time that he didn't call me back within a few hours. Now it's been two days.

So I called him last night. He answered.

I'm not going to go into details but he was mean. I mean MEAN. He was condescending and rude and sarcastic. I was taken aback. I was apalled. I eventually told him to call me when he was himself and hung up on him.

What's with this hatred? I couldn't stand Bush but I would never have let it come between me and my father. I would never have spoken to him like he did to me. I am fairly offended that he voted for Romney for multiple personal reasons that we have gone into HUGE discussions about but I would never let that affect our relationship.

It was like he was talking to a stranger.

I'm embarrassed by our country and how people are acting right now. I'm embarrassed that people feel it's okay to talk so badly about our president, of any party.

But mostly I'm sad. I'm sad that there's such an intense hatred of Obama that it is affecting the love my father has for me. I don't even want to speak to him. It's breaking my heart.

Anyway, thanks for letting me vent.

[fljoe0]

I have a theory on why people are getting so one sided on political issues. It's the enormous volume of choices we have watching news on television. I know it sounds like that should make us more rounded but what is happening (I see this with some of my own family members) is that all of these opinion oriented cable news channels and shows are very one sided (both left and right). It's like "preaching to the choir." If you so chose, you can watch opinion oriented news all day long and never hear an opinion that differs from yours. There are 100 channels of opinions out there and you can pick the 2 or 3 channels that most fit your point of view and never hear anything else. All of the choices seem to be narrowing our perspective.

[Spideyman]

((((Shasta))))

[king family fan]

Sending you hugs! Group hugs everyone.

[Moderator]

Was trying to find a show I'd heard just recently on the radio (I think it was NPR) that was about families and friends who have had a falling out because of politics and a technique to use to be able to resolve those issues without trying to convince the other person that they should be the one to change which I think is what is happening a lot with political discussions. It's become very much an either/or way of looking at things. The part that I was most interested in was the segment of the show that was an interview with two sisters who had gotten to the point where they weren't speaking to each other but had used that technique with success to at least get past the silence even though they still had the same opinions. Haven't been able to find it yet, though. Will keep looking in case it might be something that would be of help. Your dad may just need a little time to let this sink in. It's probably still too raw for him but it does seem extreme that he would vent that kind of anger on you. (((Shasta)))

[Shasta]

I have a theory on why people are getting so one sided on political issues. It's the enormous volume of choices we have watching news on television. I know it sounds like that should make us more rounded but what is happening (I see this with some of my own family members) is that all of these opinion oriented cable news channels and shows are very one sided (both left and right). It's like "preaching to the choir." If you so chose, you can watch opinion oriented news all day long and never hear an opinion that differs from yours. There are 100 channels of opinions out there and you can pick the 2 or 3 channels that most fit your point of view and never hear anything else. All of the choices seem to be narrowing our perspective.

I can definitely see that. But it still doesn't explain why people are so angry. As far as I'm concerned there's not much that should affect a family and politics is certainly not one of them.

I was listening to NPR right before the election and they had this whole thing on this election ruining relationships. I actually said to my husband, "Oh, that's going to happen to me and my dad." My husband just laughed because neither of us ever thought that would happen.

I do not get it. I mean, I could see if my gay step-brother stopped talking to my dad for voting for Romney. Even then I wouldn't agree but I could see it. This whole thing just doesn't make sense to me.

[Shasta]

Was trying to find a show I'd heard just recently on the radio (I think it was NPR) that was about families and friends who have had a falling out because of politics and a technique to use to be able to resolve those issues without trying to convince the other person that they should be the one to change which I think is what is happening a lot with political discussions. It's become very much an either/or way of looking at things. The part that I was most interested in was the segment of the show that was an interview with two sisters who had gotten to the point where they weren't speaking to each other but had used that technique with success to at least get past the silence even though they still had the same opinions. Haven't been able to find it yet, though. Will keep looking in case it might be something that would be of help. Your dad may just need a little time to let this sink in. It's probably still too raw for him but it does seem extreme that he would vent that kind of anger on you. (((Shasta)))

HA! That's so funny!

I was just posting about this at the same time. That was such an interesting story because I never thought people would sink to that.

What's even funnier about it is that my dad DID call me selfish, just like those sisters. I tried to ask how I was selfish when the whole point of my party was HELPING people and he said I just wanted a hand-out. Ug... can't keep telling the story... makes me cry.... but it went on from there.

I'll try to find the story too. You're right. It may help.

I'm concerned if he does come back into his right mind and apologize I might still have inner animosity. Though, it's highly unlikely he will apologize. I can't remember any time he's ever apologized for anything.

[fljoe0]

My mom has kind of gone off the deep end of politics. It's weird because I never remember talking much about politics before a few years ago. Her and her husband watch cable news constantly and always think the world is going to end if their side doesn't win an election. I avoid the subject around her. I don't think she would ever get mad at me and not talk to me but I just steer the conversation to other things. I never even told her who I voted for in 2008. :biggrin2: I never lied to her but I sure did change the subject a few times. :biggrin2: I really don't feel like having political arguments with my mother.

[Shasta]

Found it!

Red state, blue state on This American Life. I love this American Life.

I'm going to listen to this again right now.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/478/red-state-blue-state

[Moderator]

That may have been the same show I was trying to find.

My recollection is that there were a lot of people who were angry and in a state of disbelief (count me as one) after Bush won his second term but can't remember if the discussions were as contentious.

[Vose]

Feeling for you, Shasta. I liken this to my sister in law, who is a Jehovah's Witness. You absolutely CANNOT bring it up or allow her to bring it up, because there is no discussion - what she believes is the only belief that is allowed. That's the problem with any type of extremism, it ignores the whole "to err is human" ideology, and says that doubt of your own beliefs is weakness. I am sorry for your suffering relationship with your father, but I do believe things will cool down. It's still a fresh wound, and the right has used such a great amount of fear to rally the voters that now those who believed those scare tactics are afraid and looking for people to blame. It will pass, as all things. I'd like to say we (as a country) will learn from this, but we won't. Keep trying to make amends, stay away from talking about politics, and don't allow the two of you to drift apart over something like this! Or maybe try crying, that usually brings us menfolk around to those we care about!

[Moderator]

Found it!

Red state, blue state on This American Life. I love this American Life.

I'm going to listen to this again right now.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/478/red-state-blue-state (http://www.stephenking.com/forums/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thisamericanli fe.org%2Fradio-archives%2Fepisode%2F478%2Fred-state-blue-state)

We were posting at the same time again. :biggrin2: Yes, that was the show I was referring to.

[Shasta]

We were posting at the same time again. :biggrin2: Yes, that was the show I was referring to.

Great minds and all.....

:grinning:

[bryras]

Shasta,

I'm sorry but I know that this happens. My state is very Republican.

I had the reversal of what you are talking about. I had no political affiliation. I saw my dad for the first time in 4 years and he said "Your a damn Republican". It was because I was wearing a shirt with collars. I suppose that most people are aware that the western states are republican for the most part I'm not. It hurt my feelings to be jumped on like that. My dad was a stanch supporter of whatever president was in office (25 years in the Army). He made me feel like I was wrong for having my own beliefs. Don't let it get you down. Political stuff is just that, political. You love your dad and he loves you. He might rag on Obama but at least you are still talking to him.

My dad died 8 years ago. I would love to give him crap and say "Hell yes I'm a republican" even though I am not.

[Shasta]

I really don't feel like having political arguments with my mother.

If I ever decide to forgive my father (which of course I will but right now I feel like pretending like I won't) I think this may be the direction we move to. It's unfortunate because I have learned so much from him and he's the one who taught me to be open-minded and think about each side. It's just too bad that he gets upset when I don't choose his side.

I really think he's getting weird as he gets older.

[Shasta]

My dad died 8 years ago. I would love to give him crap and say "Hell yes I'm a republican" even though I am not.

Thank you so much. I need that reminder. Thank you.

[fushingfeef]

It's a shame to hear this, Shasta. I do think he needs time to let the situation sink in and he'll eventually come around...after all, you're his daughter! Life is more than politics.

My dad was a total bullhead about religion. His way was right, all others were were wrong. No questioning it. I was never going to find any common ground with him so I chose not to talk about religion with him. Ever. If the subject ever came up, I simply changed the subject, or walked away. He had his mind made up that this was not an area he was going to explore or grow in. Our relationship was not going to be the same as it was before I started questioning my religious upbringing.

My theory is that much of the seemingly enormous chasm between "right" and "left", liberal and conservative, Republican and Democrat is manufactured by a lazy media whose job it is is to get you riled up and making yourself feel taller by cutting off the legs of others, not by educating you on what's really going on in the majority of the world. So we're always being shown the fringes, the extremes, not the moderate things that make the world go 'round and function much better than we'd ever believe.

If you turned on the news and they said "This just in...most people agree on this, this and this" or "continued peace between Canada and the USA" the media thinks you would not be watching for long, and they're probably right. Instead, it's much easier to say "Hey look at what this idiot just said! Can you believe that idiot just said that?" and you watch it and feel good about yourself because you know you're not that idiot, and you feel more secure in your beliefs, even though more and more we seem to be defined by not what we stand for, but what we stand against.

The problem is that we have all these easy substitutes for human contact in the form of the mass media and they all tell us exactly what we want to hear. At the same time we as a wealthy nation are having most of our needs met and we're like spoiled kids fighting over who gets the biggest piece of cake instead of just being happy that there's a cake to begin with.

[kingricefan]

Shasta- first off, if you know that your Dad has never apologized for any of his behavour, then don't expect him to now. When he does start to talk to you, accept that as his apology. I hate to see when families can't get along, but it happens. I myself have had falling outs with members of my family and we always seem to work it out and move on. Sometimes it takes a day or two, sometimes a week or two, sometimes it's months. I would maybe just ask your Dad why he's so scared. Anger usually stems from some kind of fear. Of course, this may just set him off again. Sticky situation. I lost my Dad a couple of years back, and even tho we weren't all that close (absent father while growing up, second family with another woman, etc.) and I didn't speak to him for a lot of years, we did manage to mend fences, so-to-speak, and have some good years before he passed. Time is not on our side, so try to be accepting of him and try not to let this (what will be later) minor thing come between the two of you. He will get over his anger eventually. Good luck and whatever happens you know that we are here for you!!

[staropeace]

OK, I am Canadian but I would have voted for Mitt. I think Obama is a lovely man,but not all that good for Canadian interests. We are fortunate to live in two countries where we have the right to vote and have a say in our Nation's business. To think that the voters are stupid to vote for the Republicans or the converse is wrong thinking. We should respect the decisions .....even if they differ from our own. That is the point of democracy.

Presidents will come and go but family is forever...and the most important thing. I am sure your father will simmer down after the heat of the election wears off. He behaviour is wrong and somewhat silly but people do seem to get riled about such things. Just tell him you love him and for God's sake don't gloat...lol.

[Shasta]

Thanks everyone, for all of the kind words!

Fushing - you are totally right. I can't talk to my mother-in-law about religion either. I think this just hit me harder because it was my dad, but you're right. I need to just change teh sunject to his dog!

Kingricefan - My dad and I didn't talk for 10 years. (Evil step mother, long story.) Before that it had been just him and me but he changed a lot in the 10 years. Us coming back together really solidified our relationship and this is the first time anything negative has happened since then. I think I'm taking it very personally because of that. So I will try to relax and not take it personally. And don't worry, I don't expect him to apologize! I love my father very much but he does a lot of things that drive me nuts. That's one of them but I chose a long time ago to love him despite his flaws. He clearly chose the same for me!

Staro - I find that very interesting. What interests do you think Romney would have improved for Canada? (I ask because they Chinese and European people I have spoken to about this say the exact opposite.) And I definitely won't gloat! No way, I know better. Though he totally would have gloated if Romney had one. I learn all kinds of things from my dad, like how NOT to act sometimes!

[JellybeanJay]

Awe Shasta, I feel for you, but you know, I don't think our parents opinions are getting stronger as they get older, I think as we get older our parents start to see us as actual people with opinions that they can carry on a conversation with. What they don't realize that as their sons or daughters ect we have bigger feelings that can be hurt easier than when they are shooting the sh!t with their friends.

I really don't think there is any excuse to be rude though and your dad may just need some time but he will come back to you.

[staropeace]

Some of the issues involve trade and the pipeline...things like that. Your dad is probably not mad at you but at the election results. Your vote won and it has choked him a bit. Life is so precious and it is not worth it to let things like this become so very important...your dad will realize that.

I do not take politics all that seriously. Politicians are a different breed from the rest of us. I think voting for them just encourages the buggers....lol....just joking.

Sometimes I wonder why people insist that their opinions are the only ones that have merit. I think what a waste of energy it is to always want to be right. There is really no right or wrong way to vote. We just give our two cents and thank God we can.

I do not think that being a president is an easy job. I wish Obama that best. Americans should be proud of the accomplishments of their Nation...it is a great place.

[GNTLGNT]

...much love Shasta...much love...and I understand I'm a bit thick-skulled(which is like saying Mt. Rushmore is a sorta large sculpture), but I learned early on to avoid religion and politics with the family, and just argue about sensible things-like who was gonna clean up after the dog and that beef roast tasted a little "off"....

[Becks19]

Shasta, Many hugs to you. Perhaps your father will come to his senses once he cools down. ( maybe, even realize how much he hurt your feelings) (((Shasta)))

[king family fan]

Just hang in there, remember we all have our own opinions on things. We handle things in different ways. We must set those things aside and be family. As we are family here on the board. Best of luck and will diffentily be thinking of you and your father. ((Shasta and Dads relationship)) pull together.

[PatInTheHat]

Hmm, now don't get me wrong, I've seen this happen too many times to count, and I truly understand how awful it can be for a family, the whole family, not just the 'participants'.
What I don't really get is, why it happens?
See while my family has it's problems (oh boy & gee whiz:laugh:), political head bangin', it ain't one of 'em.
Oh we bang heads alright alright, holy smokes do we ever bang heads, butt it ain't really much of a problem:cool2:.
In fact, I honestly and truly think it's one of the real things that actually helps keep us bunch o' knuckleheads kinda together, keeps us, at least a bunch of us, lookin' forward to the next holiday gathering, justa visit, or what & wherever two or more of us have the opportunity to bash a blind ignorant fool completely devoid of any semblance of common sense and probably switched at birth, into a quivering pile of thoroughly chastised whimpering submission, '...and could you pass them taters please, oh my them's deeeelicious, did you use real butter & cream? Now where was I, oh yeah, since I know English is your first & only language, I gotta wonder, exactly when was it you got so god damn freakin' stupid?!?!:rolleyes:.
Safety First! >>>------->:geek:..now that there's always a right smart motto to bring to our festive Thanksgiving table, okay, any table, and now don't you go forgettin' your appetite, we've always got plenty:love:.

[Vose]

That's how my family is for the most part, too, but there's always exceptions. That one thing that you never bring up or say. In my family we don't talk about religion because of my sister who is a witness, but politics is open season (despite are varied perspectives).

[PatInTheHat]

In my family we don't talk about religion because of my sister who is a witness
Oh my:love:!...um, you might probably don't wanna invite my crew over:laugh:..yeah yeah okay, so maybe just me:blush:.

[guido tkp]

i've always thought we find ourselves in these predicaments because we, as individuals, often feel the need to be 'right'...or 'in charge'...
and anything that doesn't fit into the slim paradigm of our own meager thoughts, often shifts us into an 'alpha dog' moment: i'm right...everyone else is wrong...get in line now, or else

we box ourselves, brick by brick, like some demented roger waters character, right into that corner every time

once there, we then feel the need for redemption at how smart we are..and when we don't get that, we react/overreact....

we'd all be so much better off if we just realized that the best we can do is offer up a way of thinking, a belief, a political philosophy that is uniquely our own, just for the one

live that life and hope to god that those around us look and say 'how is that you've found peace'...

then answer carefully, because the way one says things influences, one way or the other, the one you are talking to

this is not a game: there is no score to be kept, no trophy to be won...we should not be in this to win over (or worse, bludgeon into submission) ourselves a few disciples to a cause; we should be in it to do good...

and let own brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers,sons, daughters, friends, neighbors...or just acquaintences live thier own life, fully...with our love and support as the base, rather than the individual philosophies we've decided are most important

are we really only all about making people walk in goosestep with what we think is correct, did we ever really care about each other as a people...or just as objects to be filled with our own magnificence....

i love diversity...the fact that we all have our own likes, dislikes...hopefully always will...i love the idea that, except for the odd tiff here or there, we can can just get along fine because we care about each other...not what we think, what we wear, who we live with...

oh, i don't know....i sincerely hope you find a peaceable path with your father soon, shasta: it's clear having that relationship is very important to you...one can only fervently hope that, soon, your father will understand that, too

[Todash]

Hang in there. Lots of people are upset right now. It will calm down; you'll see. :smile2:

[hossenpepper]

Time and again, conservatives remind me that the real backbone of their politics is "not in my backyard".

They don't seem to lend much credit to "what is good for the goose is good for the gander".

If your Dad can't chill, then tell him you will only discuss insect politics with him. That is easy as they don't have any.

[Vose]

If your Dad can't chill, then tell him you will only discuss insect politics with him. That is easy as they don't have any.

I believe that ants might be semi-political, but I doubt they argue about it much :)

[PatInTheHat]

we should not be in this to win over (or worse, bludgeon into submission) ourselves a few disciples to a cause; we should be in it to do good...


Disciples:eyebrow:?...hell with that, I await my victims:y:.
Now as for the doin' any good, at all, yeah yeah sure, okey dokey and all that, but now I got a brother comin' over for his "free" feedbag in a couple weeks, and I'm pretty positive he already knows he's gonna be the evening's headline entertainment, just like I was eight & twelve years ago...yeah some years are better than others that's a fact:biggrin2:.
Hey good entertainment don't come cheap, I mean somebody's gotta pay the current market price for a top o' the line sideshow:rolleyes:.
Oh my word I can hardly sit still, is it ever gonna be so freakin' grand:laugh:!!!

[Shasta]

What I don't really get is, why it happens?
:love:.

That's what I'm not understanding as well. We've always been able to have a debate then move right on.

[guido tkp]

g'head, pat...break out yer mittens and slap 'im silly :wink2:

[fushingfeef]

I think in general it's not a good idea to take an absolutist stance on everything. Yes there are a few things that are absolutely wrong and right (basic human rights, etc.) but there are always fuzzy areas that cause lots of division. People really need to learn that it's okay that other people have other points of view that are different from our own, and try to learn from them (or at least learn to live with them) rather than being combative and absolutist about everything. I've sometimes said the one thing I won't tolerate is intolerance.

Easier said than done, right?

[Todash]

I think in general it's not a good idea to take an absolutist stance on everything. Yes there are a few things that are absolutely wrong and right (basic human rights, etc.) but there are always fuzzy areas that cause lots of division. People really need to learn that it's okay that other people have other points of view that are different from our own, and try to learn from them (or at least learn to live with them) rather than being combative and absolutist about everything. I've sometimes said the one thing I won't tolerate is intolerance.

Easier said than done, right?

I have no idea what you are talking about. I'm totally right. About everything. And the sooner everyone just realizes that, the better.

[Moderator]

:laugh:

[Tery]

Part of the problem is that the extremists on the Right have whipped those who follow them into such a frenzy of hate and fear that they really believe all the hype. Hopefully, your Dad will come to his senses. Perhaps he will realize that fear and hate is no way to live.

((Shasta))U

Until then... here, you can use this:
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd103/laserspray/internet%20stuff/LOLZ/funny-animal-captions-animal-capshunz-bow-to-the-tortoise.jpg

[clownshooter]

Shasta I'll go one more higher than Tery and say that extremists on both the right and left are guilty of fear mongering as in "if you don't believe my point of view or politics, the sky is going to fall!"
I don't know how old your dad is but allow me a possible explanation. I'm 63 which makes me a baby boomer. I grew up praying in public school, climbing under my school desk in the event of a nuclear attack (a lot of good that would do :-) ) and practice evacuations to the fallout shelter. I watched the civil rights movement from the safety of my TV not really understanding the whole thing till I moved to the south (from NY) in the late sixties, early seventies.
I suppose the previous was a long winded way to say that I have seen a lot of change in my lifetime. Unfortunately, change is very scary to some people. I have had very close friends who refused to embrace computers and technology not because they weren't smart enough or capable; I opine it was simply fear or maybe denial.
America has become more diverse. I remember an advanced management class I took for a week back in 1989. One of the things we were told is that the native born, caucasian American is on the decline and in 15-20 years the person working next to us may not be a native American and English will be a second language for him/her. Boy, were they spot on.
We have also recently experienced a really bad recession, our nation is in debt, and the climate is going to hell in a hand basket. There are a lot of social issues that weren't issues 30 years ago and some of them are very devisive.
The press (name your flavor) has taken advantage of this and has both sides of many issues foaming at the mouth.
So you may have to give your dad some time to digest everything. Once the election shock wears off, he may seek an opportunity to speak to you and it may be just to rant. Consider that a debriefing of sorts because if he does rant, you will be able to read between the lines and see what his fears really are. Even if they are unreasonable to you, they may be very real to him. Hopefully the opportunity will arise where you guys can just talk.
I don't know if this was helpful or not. I have had to go through this with a few very close acquaintances. Once they settled down and realized that they were still getting up the next morning and having a cup of coffee as usual, they began to calm down. I will earnestly hope for a reconciliation.

[PatInTheHat]

Shasta I'll go one more higher than Tery and say that extremists on both the right and left are guilty of fear mongering as in "if you don't believe my point of view or politics, the sky is going to fall!"
I don't know how old your dad is but allow me a possible explanation. I'm 63 which makes me a baby boomer. I grew up praying in public school, climbing under my school desk in the event of a nuclear attack (a lot of good that would do :-) ) and practice evacuations to the fallout shelter. I watched the civil rights movement from the safety of my TV not really understanding the whole thing till I moved to the south (from NY) in the late sixties, early seventies.
I suppose the previous was a long winded way to say that I have seen a lot of change in my lifetime. Unfortunately, change is very scary to some people. I have had very close friends who refused to embrace computers and technology not because they weren't smart enough or capable; I opine it was simply fear or maybe denial.
America has become more diverse. I remember an advanced management class I took for a week back in 1989. One of the things we were told is that the native born, caucasian American is on the decline and in 15-20 years the person working next to us may not be a native American and English will be a second language for him/her. Boy, were they spot on.
We have also recently experienced a really bad recession, our nation is in debt, and the climate is going to hell in a hand basket. There are a lot of social issues that weren't issues 30 years ago and some of them are very devisive.
The press (name your flavor) has taken advantage of this and has both sides of many issues foaming at the mouth.
So you may have to give your dad some time to digest everything. Once the election shock wears off, he may seek an opportunity to speak to you and it may be just to rant. Consider that a debriefing of sorts because if he does rant, you will be able to read between the lines and see what his fears really are. Even if they are unreasonable to you, they may be very real to him. Hopefully the opportunity will arise where you guys can just talk.
I don't know if this was helpful or not. I have had to go through this with a few very close acquaintances. Once they settled down and realized that they were still getting up the next morning and having a cup of coffee as usual, they began to calm down. I will earnestly hope for a reconciliation.

Oh yeah sure, the grating and most ann:glare:ying voice of reason:biggrin2:.

[Shasta]

Once they settled down and realized that they were still getting up the next morning and having a cup of coffee as usual, they began to calm down. I will earnestly hope for a reconciliation.

I still haven't heard a word from my father. I'm contemplating not even calling him on Thanksgiving just to see how long he's going to keep this up for.

[not_nadine]

Might not want to bring this up. Breaking news: Romney is back to pumping his own gas. :glare:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/romney-pumping-gas-photo-151702638--election.html

[Todash]

I still haven't heard a word from my father. I'm contemplating not even calling him on Thanksgiving just to see how long he's going to keep this up for.
I'm not usually this direct, but: don't do that. Call. This politics stuff is not important enough to put up a wall between a father and a daughter. It's okay to be the first to extend the olive branch even if the other person was clearly in the wrong. Isn't a good relationship worth more than being vindicated? Anyway, my guess is that even if he realized he was wrong, he'd never say it. Pride is a hard thing to swallow. But CALL. He might be mean again; just remember that he must have been very afraid (however irrationally) to speak to you the way he did. It came out as anger, I know, but really it was fear. And maybe he's still afraid. Don't let him push you away, though. Keep trying.

I know, I'm bossy. Sorry. :smile2: I've had a lot of experience this year vehemently disagreeing with people but realizing I want to hang onto them for dear life anyway.

[Shasta]

I'm not usually this direct, but: don't do that. Call. This politics stuff is not important enough to put up a wall between a father and a daughter. It's okay to be the first to extend the olive branch even if the other person was clearly in the wrong. Isn't a good relationship worth more than being vindicated? Anyway, my guess is that even if he realized he was wrong, he'd never say it. Pride is a hard thing to swallow. But CALL. He might be mean again; just remember that he must have been very afraid (however irrationally) to speak to you the way he did. It came out as anger, I know, but really it was fear. And maybe he's still afraid. Don't let him push you away, though. Keep trying.

I know, I'm bossy. Sorry. :smile2: I've had a lot of experience this year vehemently disagreeing with people but realizing I want to hang onto them for dear life anyway.

But aren't you even CURIOUS as to how long it will be?

Though, I must say the last time I did that we didn't talk for 10 years. Literally.

I just really want to know if it's that important to him to do that again.

But I know you're right. I'll probably call. Because losing him for another 10 years? Nothing's that important to me.

[Shasta]

Might not want to bring this up. Breaking news: Romney is back to pumping his own gas. :glare:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/romney-pumping-gas-photo-151702638--election.html

I was unaware he knew how to do such an mundane thing.

[Shasta]

Might not want to bring this up. Breaking news: Romney is back to pumping his own gas. :glare:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/romney-pumping-gas-photo-151702638--election.html

I just read the article? This stupid secession thing makes me think that I want to send a letter to the White House asking if the state of California can ban him from moving here. Though we do really need the little bit of taxes he pays....

[not_nadine]

Well it IS La Jolla.

[staropeace]

Shasta, I thought of your dad being so serious about politics when I read this. Looks like he has competition...

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2012/11/19/gun-shop-owner-refuses-sales-to-democrats

[Moderator]

Must be something in the air in AZ, because there's also this one.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/13/15137488-police-arizona-woman-runs-down-husband-with-car-for-not-voting?lite

[Todash]

Must be something in the air in AZ, because there's also this one.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/13/15137488-police-arizona-woman-runs-down-husband-with-car-for-not-voting?lite (http://www.stephenking.com/forums/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fusnews.nbcnews.com %2F_news%2F2012%2F11%2F13%2F15137488-police-arizona-woman-runs-down-husband-with-car-for-not-voting%3Flite)
I wonder if it will make any difference to these people when 2016 comes and we are not Muslim (unless we want to be), they still have their guns, no one has forced anyone to have an abortion, no one has sentenced anyone to death simply for being sick, and we are all still alive and kicking?

Probably not.

[Moderator]

Even in the brief time I've spent in AZ so far, I can see it's going to be a subject I won't be able to discuss once I'm doing my snow bird thing there. Had a brief taste of that the last time I was there when a shopkeeper was saying she'd moved from CA to AZ because CA was being taken over by "those" people (yes, that's the term she used referring to Hispanics--all of whom were deemed to be illegal immigrants by this person). Tried not to but was kind of hard to keep my eyebrows from heading toward my hair line as she was talking and put my diplomacy skills to test. :smile2:

[PatInTheHat]

I wonder if it will make any difference to these people when 2016 comes and we are not Muslim (unless we want to be), they still have their guns, no one has forced anyone to have an abortion, no one has sentenced anyone to death simply for being sick, and we are all still alive and kicking?

Probably not.

Depends, what new fun fun fun fear for the whole family is in the works in R&D down at fear factory central, or what new scary thang will the fearmongers just find layin' around to overly exploit and sell like ice cream on a hot day...maybe it's like that nature abhors a vacuum thing, or ya know, perhaps it's just our nature.
Hmm, how about we give them Godless commies a walk around the park again, I mean even ol' Romney Noodles thinks the cold war's still revvin', they're always good for a, 'God Bless America', or two, and surely we still have an inventory of Snitch Out Your Neighborhood's Commie Hoards propaganda layin' about:y:.
:umm:
Butt I'm goin' with, fear a world government, maybe some o' that Agenda 21 jack booted boogermen flyin' around in U.N. black helicopters roundin' up weapons & dissidents, you know, more old timey end of our sovereignty type stuff, nothin' too original:sleepy:
Oh, and speakin' of nothin' original, definitely more socialism socialism socialism, it rots your teeth and stinkys up your breath:oo:..well, maybe it does, and just mayyybe it doesn't:rolleyes:.

[Todash]

Even in the brief time I've spent in AZ so far, I can see it's going to be a subject I won't be able to discuss once I'm doing my snow bird thing there. Had a brief taste of that the last time I was there when a shopkeeper was saying she'd moved from CA to AZ because CA was being taken over by "those" people (yes, that's the term she used referring to Hispanics--all of whom were deemed to be illegal immigrants by this person). Tried not to but was kind of hard to keep my eyebrows from heading toward my hair line as she was talking and put my diplomacy skills to test. :smile2:EW, BROWN PEOPLE!!!

Okay, funny story (at least I think it's funny). My niece Corah is 18 and has been raised in a small, white, white town about a half hour north of me. Her dad is the kind of guy who doesn't have any issues working or casually socializing with black people but probably would not be cool with his daughter dating one. I don't know ... would you call that middling-racist? And then she has told me there is a lot of racism at her school. Not overt because, well, it's mostly white people, but her friends will talk about how they wouldn't date a black guy or whatever. Anyway, she realizes that is all messed up but of course has become used to being surrounded by WASPs. The thing is, her dad is not her biological father. She is a product of a one-night stand my husband's sister had with a Mexican coworker who unfortunately never showed any interest in her and signed away his parental rights some time ago. SO. Most people don't know this, but she is biologically half-Mexican.

Anyway, that's all for background. She was here a few weeks ago, and we went to that great equalizer, Walmart. I never notice because this is my environment, but yes, typically there's a mix of races shopping there. (Everybody has to go to Walmart. It's like death and taxes.) So all of a sudden, she looked at me and whispered, "I'm not used to this. There are a lot of ethnic people here." I whispered back, "YOU are ethnic people." It took her a second, but then she burst out laughing. "I am!! I forget that!"

[Moderator]

:laugh: And whether we believe in the religious or purely scientific evolutionary process, we all came from the same source if we follow things back to the beginning. :smile2: Of course, that does require recognizing that all races are part of humanity.

[Bryan James]

George Thorogood:

Who Do you Love

Who do you love?
Who do you love?

I walked forty-seven miles of barbed wire
I got a cobra snake for a necktie
A brand new house along the roadside
And it's a made out of rattlesnake hide

It's got a band new chimney put on top
And it's a made out of human skull
Come on take a little walk with me baby
And tell me who do you love?

Who do you love?

Now around the town I use a rattlesnake whip
Take it easy baby don't you give me no lip

Who do you love?
Who do you love?

I've got a tombstone hand and a graveyard mind
I'm just twenty-two and I don't mind dying

Who do you love?
Yeah, who do you love?
Ah, who do you love?

Now Arlene took a me by my hand
She said, "Lonesome George you don't understand"

Who do you love?

So the night were dark and the sky were blue
Down the alleyway a house wagon flew
Hit a bump and somebody screamed
You should've heard what I'd seen

Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Yeah, who do you love?
Ah, who do you love?

Yeah, I've got a tombstone hand in a graveyard mine
Just twenty-two baby, I don't mind dying
Snakeskin shoes baby put them on your feet
Got the good time music and the Bo Diddley beat

Who do you love?
Who do you love?

Who do you love?
Who do you love?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bury your hatchets the instant you know you are bearing them.

[Shasta]

Even in the brief time I've spent in AZ so far, I can see it's going to be a subject I won't be able to discuss once I'm doing my snow bird thing there. Had a brief taste of that the last time I was there when a shopkeeper was saying she'd moved from CA to AZ because CA was being taken over by "those" people (yes, that's the term she used referring to Hispanics--all of whom were deemed to be illegal immigrants by this person). Tried not to but was kind of hard to keep my eyebrows from heading toward my hair line as she was talking and put my diplomacy skills to test. :smile2:

And I'll give you one chance to guess where my father retired to.......

Yep, that's right. Arizona.

[Moderator]

And I'll give you one chance to guess where my father retired to.......

Yep, that's right. Arizona.

That explains a lot! :biggrin2:

[Shasta]

(Everybody has to go to Walmart. It's like death and taxes.)

Not true! I've been successfully boycotting it for years.

[Shasta]

That explains a lot! :biggrin2:

Yep. He's offered to buy me a house if I move there. I refuse. I want a house more than anything but a baby and I just can't do it. I'd like to keep my soul, thanks!

[Dana Jean]

Wait. Arizona is on the border. She moved from California to Arizona to get away from Mexicans. Doesn't Arizona have a lot of Mexicans too? I don't know, but I would think so.

[not_nadine]

Shasta! :laugh: Wow. I know it's not funny, but wow.

[Moderator]

Yep. He's offered to buy me a house if I move there. I refuse. I want a house more than anything but a baby and I just can't do it. I'd like to keep my soul, thanks!

I hear you. I've been thinking of it from a different angle, though. If I lived there long enough to change my residency (not sure if it's 6 months out of the year there), I could be voting Democratic and helping to offset the Republican votes. I just wouldn't discuss politics with anyone there! :biggrin2: From what I've heard, the Tucson area (where my place is) is a little more liberal although I'm guessing that's a relative term--they did have Democrat Congresswoman Gabby Giffords and reelected her replacement albeit by a narrow margin. The Democrats now hold 5 of Arizona's 9 congressional seats.

[Moderator]

Wait. Arizona is on the border. She moved from California to Arizona to get away from Mexicans. Doesn't Arizona have a lot of Mexicans too? I don't know, but I would think so.

Yes, they do. My place (and the town where that shop is) is only 26 miles north of the Mexican border and has a permanent Border Patrol checkpoint on the side of the highway heading north where everyone has to stop.

[Shasta]

I hear you. I've been thinking of it from a different angle, though. If I lived there long enough to change my residency (not sure if it's 6 months out of the year there), I could be voting Democratic and helping to offset the Republican votes. I just wouldn't discuss politics with anyone there! :biggrin2: From what I've heard, the Tucson area (where my place is) is a little more liberal although I'm guessing that's a relative term--they did have Democrat Congresswoman Gabby Giffords and reelected her replacement albeit by a narrow margin. The Democrats now hold 5 of Arizona's 9 congressional seats.

That is a very good point. I could see living in Flagstaff or Sedona (definitely Sedona) or even Tuscon.

But he lives right outside of Scottsdale. No thank you.

[Shasta]

Okay, so a quick update.

I called my dad on Thanksgiving. He was a jerk. I ignored him.

I called my dad the Sunday after Thanksgiving. He was a jerk. I ignored him.

I called him last Friday night. He didn't answer.

FINALLY he called me back yesterday and he was a fairly normal human.

It looks like we're over the hump!

[Moderator]

:y:

[Becks19]

Shasta, I am so happy for you. I am glad he finally cooled off enough to be civil.

[guido tkp]

glad to hear it, hope the thaw continues...especially with the holiday season upon us...

don't know if humor works well, but...maybe...for christmas...you could get him a dart board with a picture of a donkey on it: nothing vents frustration better than kickin' someone in the a$$ :wink2:

[kingricefan]

Great news!! :laugh: