How Old is Roland?

[KyleKarabekian]

How Old is Roland? I don't want to go into details about why I think Robin Furth is incorrect, but I don't think Roland is 336 years old.

[hossenpepper]

Well, are you asking how old he is at the start of the story in The Gunslinger? Otherwise, without spoiling The Dark Tower VII for anyone that hasn't read it, seems to me that is impossible to answer...

[rjt65]

At what point are you referring to his age?

[KyleKarabekian]

After his Long Nap.

[KyleKarabekian]

after the nap he took in Golgotha.

[rjt65]

I think that truly after that is open to opinion and not a definite age. Both he and Walter tell tales of that meeting and what happened use generalizations. In addition the elasticity of time is "screwed up" in his world.

so my thought is who knows---- ;-)

[Moderator]

Robin did extensive research into the timeline of Roland's age and had the benefit of being able to pass it by Steve for his scrutiny so I would trust her calculations.

[JohnDalglish]

Hi,

'Time is soft'.

Long days and pleasant nights

[hossenpepper]

Robin did extensive research into the timeline of Roland's age and had the benefit of being able to pass it by Steve for his scrutiny so I would trust her calculations.

Well, that is soemthing. I would put forth that the world and circumstance Steve set up makes it impossible to say, unless the end of DT VII is the "first time", then in relation to that it would seem like it could be derived somehow. BTW, people have panned that ending, but I personally thought it was awesome and true stroke of genius by Steve. Like it said repetedly "Ka is wheel". If you think about it, how else could it end?

[Bryan James]

I think that Steve would be the first to admit that a story (especially a long-o time-o one like DT) can create its own lifeforce. All us idiot, awesome, juicy readers might fire our synapses somewhere along the trip.

Roland is as old as you want him to be.

And He gets to go again. A Fantastic Re-do.

[KyleKarabekian]

I thought the same thing today, about how Robin researched and researched and that brought up the fact that "time is funny in Roland's world", so I guess it just had to be caused by that. I don't want to give away any spoilers, so I really can't say what is the weird part of his age and the world around him.

[KyleKarabekian]

Well, that is soemthing. I would put forth that the world and circumstance Steve set up makes it impossible to say, unless the end of DT VII is the "first time", then in relation to that it would seem like it could be derived somehow. BTW, people have panned that ending, but I personally thought it was awesome and true stroke of genius by Steve. Like it said repetedly "Ka is wheel". If you think about it, how else could it end?

You're right about the ending, it was really the only way it could have ended.

[~Ally~]

I thought the same thing today, about how Robin researched and researched and that brought up the fact that "time is funny in Roland's world", so I guess it just had to be caused by that. I don't want to give away any spoilers, so I really can't say what is the weird part of his age and the world around him.

But you can give away spoilers, just put them in a spoiler tag and anyone who opens it will know what to expect.
If you feel this strongly that you can disprove Rolands estimated age then please share.
I'm sure many people are genuinely interested to read your theory. :smile2:

[KyleKarabekian]

How do I make a spoiler thingy? And it isn't so much a theory, a handful of people said 'time is funny', and that I guess disproves my thinking. If this works to hide this, I've found out how to do the 'spoiler tag'

[KyleKarabekian]

Well the spoiler thingy worked so here is my theory-thing: How is Sheemie Ruiz alive if Roland slept for 300 years?

I apologize if my theory was anti-climactic.

[KyleKarabekian]

Here is why I have doubts about Roland's age: How is Sheemie Ruiz alive still? Roland and Sheemie are both really old. That is the only answer I can think of.

Although, time is funny, that si another reason, perhaps the most reasonable one.

[rjt65]

A valid point, but time is elastic and funny---in his world... as u stated--- so don't go boinkers trying to figure this out, u will go nuts....

no apology needed and welcome to the skmb !!




Here is why I have doubts about Roland's age: How is Sheemie Ruiz alive still? Roland and Sheemie are both really old. That is the only answer I can think of.

Although, time is funny, that si another reason, perhaps the most reasonable one.

[hossenpepper]

A valid point, but time is elastic and funny---in his world... as u stated--- so don't go boinkers trying to figure this out, u will go nuts....

no apology needed and welcome to the skmb !!

Yeah I think you hit it on the head in a better way than what I was trying to say. You just can't really know, there are too many factors, some of which aren't even truly defined. The fact is that each in the story has a part to play and since the whole crux (to me anyway) of the DT is that there "are many worlds other than this one" perhaps means that this is the passion play of reality and is without end. Who knows how many times it's been? It seems it has ALWAYS been. To steal a line from another SK work, Roland has "always been the caretaker here." Great topic though! DT is my fav, hands down. it's Steve's real opus in my opinion.

[KyleKarabekian]

Yeah I think you hit it on the head in a better way than what I was trying to say. You just can't really know, there are too many factors, some of which aren't even truly defined. The fact is that each in the story has a part to play and since the whole crux (to me anyway) of the DT is that there "are many worlds other than this one" perhaps means that this is the passion play of reality and is without end. Who knows how many times it's been? It seems it has ALWAYS been. To steal a line from another SK work, Roland has "always been the caretaker here." Great topic though! DT is my fav, hands down. it's Steve's real opus in my opinion.

I agree, I really like DT and such a thing as his age can't quite be found. When Roland pulled his grow bag out in Wolves of the Calla, Eddie thought: "that must be hundreds of years old". And there has been numerous other occasions that Eddie has remarked about Roland's age, but then there is also things that make Roland seem young.

[sam peebles]

I thought I remember reading somewhere that Roland was thousands of years old. I thought someone mentioned in one of the books that Gilead had fallen thousands of years before, implying Roland was at least that old. In regards to Sheemie, he was not a normal person. After visiting the Dogan, he had telepathic and teleportation powers. I dunno if he could teleport into the future, but that would explain why he was still alive. And wasn't he living pretty close to the Tower? I imagine time would be especially distorted so close to the Center of the Universe.

[Mia Deschain]

in answer to sheemie you also need to look at dinky earnhart and ted brautigan. how long were they at blue heaven? personally i think time warps much slower that close to the tower.

[KyleKarabekian]

Well, Dinky Earnshaw and Ted could have ben taken at another time in their world, while In Roland's world it was also a differnt time. In Wolves of the Calla, the world were the rose is is seven minutes or something like that faster than Mid-world, and Dinky and Ted could have been from another world that has time going at a faster rate than Roland's or the one with the rose. Keystone Earth I belive it's called.

[KyleKarabekian]

I thought I remember reading somewhere that Roland was thousands of years old. I thought someone mentioned in one of the books that Gilead had fallen thousands of years before, implying Roland was at least that old. In regards to Sheemie, he was not a normal person. After visiting the Dogan, he had telepathic and teleportation powers. I dunno if he could teleport into the future, but that would explain why he was still alive. And wasn't he living pretty close to the Tower? I imagine time would be especially distorted so close to the Center of the Universe.

You're right about the thousand years thing in a way. Roland himself says he has travelled over thousands of years sometimes skipping entire generations. So he was sort of jumping through time. That is not his age however, because he didn't live in everyday of every year he skipped over. And doesn't Sheemie live in Algul Siento? I think he does so that is pretty glose to th Tower.

[hossenpepper]

Along the "sub-thread" of the perception of time in Roland's world I have a small thing to interject that is the subtext for my view of this topic.

Think about this: you have slept and been awakened by an alarm clock. You notice the alarm clock says 7:00AM. You hit snooze, doze back off, and slip into a wondeful dream of having dinner with Ms Mod and Steve, complete with REAL Maine lobster. Soon you notice a cruel buzz crashing through this blissful world of drawn butter, great conversation and interesting people. It grows louder and louder. Dammit, will somebody make that stop, we are trying to have dinner here! Two whole hours of peaceful dining bliss, only to be ruined by this incessant, infernal claptrap of noise!! Then you realize... it's the snooze alarm. You awaken once again to note a time of 7:09 AM. It seemd like hours in there; Ms Mod telling you how clever you are and Steve saying "Yes, I will use that in my next book!" and "No I never thought of ending it THAT way", yet it has only been 9 minutes! How can it so easily seem to be hours, days or months to you, yet in the "real" world it has been only 9 minutes. Well, I think we all know this is the concept of perception.

In the novels it always says "ka is a wheel" and thus, TIME is a wheel. This means that among the ability to visit any point on the wheel, the wheel can be slowed or sped up. In terms of Roland's world and the erosion and destruction of the underlying beam structure made the "gear" upon which that world's wheel was turning the "wrong size". A good analogy of this is an electric meter... if you put a larger post in it, it turns less time per minute. Since it was made clear that time was "slower" in Roland's world, we can assume the effect of the beam damage was to make the "gear" "larger". I would also postulate that since we are talking about time and space (or spacetime for you physicists out there) that the effects would be unusual and not always on a definitive metric (sometimes the slowness is to a greater or lesser degree). However, as with my dream example, the perception of these people would be that it seemed longer somehow or maybe "undefined", but not the straight analgous translation of "a thousand years" as measured when the "world [hadn't] moved on" yet.

That is my theory behind my reasoning of the answer to this question. Sorry to be so verbose-- I just drank a Red Bull. :biggrin2:

[KyleKarabekian]

Along the "sub-thread" of the perception of time in Roland's world I have a small thing to interject that is the subtext for my view of this topic.

Think about this: you have slept and been awakened by an alarm clock. You notice the alarm clock says 7:00AM. You hit snooze, doze back off, and slip into a wondeful dream of having dinner with Ms Mod and Steve, complete with REAL Maine lobster. Soon you notice a cruel buzz crashing through this blissful world of drawn butter, great conversation and interesting people. It grows louder and louder. Dammit, will somebody make that stop, we are trying to have dinner here! Two whole hours of peaceful dining bliss, only to be ruined by this incessant, infernal claptrap of noise!! Then you realize... it's the snooze alarm. You awaken once again to note a time of 7:09 AM. It seemd like hours in there; Ms Mod telling you how clever you are and Steve saying "Yes, I will use that in my next book!" and "No I never thought of ending it THAT way", yet it has only been 9 minutes! How can it so easily seem to be hours, days or months to you, yet in the "real" world it has been only 9 minutes. Well, I think we all know this is the concept of perception.

In the novels it always says "ka is a wheel" and thus, TIME is a wheel. This means that among the ability to visit any point on the wheel, the wheel can be slowed or sped up. In terms of Roland's world and the erosion and destruction of the underlying beam structure made the "gear" upon which that world's wheel was turning the "wrong size". A good analogy of this is an electric meter... if you put a larger post in it, it turns less time per minute. Since it was made clear that time was "slower" in Roland's world, we can assume the effect of the beam damage was to make the "gear" "larger". I would also postulate that since we are talking about time and space (or spacetime for you physicists out there) that the effects would be unusual and not always on a definitive metric (sometimes the slowness is to a greater or lesser degree). However, as with my dream example, the perception of these people would be that it seemed longer somehow or maybe "undefined", but not the straight analgous translation of "a thousand years" as measured when the "world [hadn't] moved on" yet.

That is my theory behind my reasoning of the answer to this question. Sorry to be so verbose-- I just drank a Red Bull. :biggrin2:

How did you get from Ka is a wheel, to Time is a wheel? It isn't so much time that makes Roland repeat his journey over and over again, but his Ka. You are right about your dream time vs. real time theory, but Roland doesn't have a second thing like real time has dream time, he only has the time in Keystone Earth, and the time in Mid-world. What I'm trying to say is that Roland isn't aging differently in those two worlds. He is aging the same as a whole no matter if he is fifty in Mid-world and forty-five in Keystone world, he is still the same age as a whole. Like if you are going from point A to point B, you can't stop and take a breack at point C. That last sentence may be a bit confusing, tell me if I have explain further on that.

[hossenpepper]

How did you get from Ka is a wheel, to Time is a wheel? It isn't so much time that makes Roland repeat his journey over and over again, but his Ka. You are right about your dream time vs. real time theory, but Roland doesn't have a second thing like real time has dream time, he only has the time in Keystone Earth, and the time in Mid-world. What I'm trying to say is that Roland isn't aging differently in those two worlds. He is aging the same as a whole no matter if he is fifty in Mid-world and forty-five in Keystone world, he is still the same age as a whole. Like if you are going from point A to point B, you can't stop and take a breack at point C. That last sentence may be a bit confusing, tell me if I have explain further on that.

Well, as it seems to me to be defined, Ka is kind of "everything", akin to bhuddist philosophy. Or maybe "fate" is a better word? Since fate depends on time to occur when it is supposed to, the two are intertwined. Roland seemed to be "tethered" to his world and its specific "rate" of time regardless of where he was physically located. The impossibility of translating that from world to world seems to make it impossible to accurately decode his true age in our years (or in dog years :biggrin2:) except for thevery first time he went through the door at the top of the tower, though in DT VII he realizes it has been countless times before, so not sure if this matters either. Given all that, I still say its not truly possible.

Today, I have not had a Red Bull yet! :oh:

[KyleKarabekian]

Well, as it seems to me to be defined, Ka is kind of "everything", akin to bhuddist philosophy. Or maybe "fate" is a better word? Since fate depends on time to occur when it is supposed to, the two are intertwined. Roland seemed to be "tethered" to his world and its specific "rate" of time regardless of where he was physically located. The impossibility of translating that from world to world seems to make it impossible to accurately decode his true age in our years (or in dog years :biggrin2:) except for thevery first time he went through the door at the top of the tower, though in DT VII he realizes it has been countless times before, so not sure if this matters either. Given all that, I still say its not truly possible.

Today, I have not had a Red Bull yet! :oh:

Yes, no matter were he is, he'll age the same. It is possible to find his age, because he lives in a world were Stephen King decides everything, so Sai king himself could say Roland's age and it would be accurate. He could say he was 19 or 99. Oh and did I mention 19? :smile2:

[hossenpepper]

Yes, no matter were he is, he'll age the same. It is possible to find his age, because he lives in a world were Stephen King decides everything, so Sai king himself could say Roland's age and it would be accurate. He could say he was 19 or 99. Oh and did I mention 19? :smile2:

Well, as Ms Mod said earlier that Steve said Robin's math was generally OK, I guess we all have to bow to the master and agree then! (I still don't really agree though :biggrin2:)

[KyleKarabekian]

I guess we do... but we will never know. Sai King is done with DT. Unless he makes The Wind Through the Keyhole! But that lost to Doctor Sleep...:sad:

[zazibar]

I feel Roland is as old as time itself. Though I'm sure you could find in answer if you studied it, but I feel that would suck all the enjoyment of a mighty fine series.

[KyleKarabekian]

I feel Roland is as old as time itself. Though I'm sure you could find in answer if you studied it, but I feel that would suck all the enjoyment of a mighty fine series.

Why do you think that? The only thing as old as time itself would be Gan. And if there were things in the Prim, like Mia.

[Morrison]

Time is stretching in Roland's universe. Years have most likely ceased to exist. Ka is a wheel, and Roland only exists within that wheel.

[KyleKarabekian]

Time is stretching in Roland's universe. Years have most likely ceased to exist. Ka is a wheel, and Roland only exists within that wheel.

I would think that Roland is ontop of the wheel, and the Tower is the axle upon which it spins(as it's been said before). Here be why I think that: When Roland gets to the Tower and opens the door, and begins again, does the whole multiverse just reset it's self? Or does it continue to go, while Roland just travels to another idetical version of Mid-world? I think everything resets it's self.

[hossenpepper]

I would think that Roland is ontop of the wheel, and the Tower is the axle upon which it spins(as it's been said before). Here be why I think that: When Roland gets to the Tower and opens the door, and begins again, does the whole multiverse just reset it's self? Or does it continue to go, while Roland just travels to another idetical version of Mid-world? I think everything resets it's self.


That is the entire basis for my point and why we can't really know.

[KyleKarabekian]

That is the entire basis for my point and why we can't really know.

Okay, then we'll just say he's 35. Or was it 36...? Well anyway, we will never know how old he is after the nap, but we do know he was in his ealry thirties when we met him in The Gunslinger.

[bigkingfaniam]

does anyone know how old rolland is or about how old???

[Moderator]

When we were discussing cast choices, Steve's response when I asked him about this is that he thinks of Roland as being "ageless" but Robin Furth did a time line for the Concordance using references from all of the books. He would have been about 36 years old when the events of The Gunslinger take place and approximately 336-337 when he awakens in the golgotha and draws the ka-tet. Her time line covers several pages and the footnotes add explanations for the calculations--too much material to repeat here.

[~Ally~]

KyleEstey started a thread on this subject months ago. You can read peoples thoughts/opinions on Roland's age here:

http://www.stephenking.com/forums/showthread.php/16941-How-Old-is-Roland

Welcome to the board.

[Moderator]

Thanks, Ally, I'll move these posts over there.