The Turtle

[AtomicAgeEthan]

There's a lot of questions I have about IT. 1st off, IT is one of my favorite books of all time. I think the characters are amazing and I thought the kids who acted in the series were great (don't get me started on the adults!). In the final sequence were we learn what the kids had to do to survive, Bill goes into another world and meets or sees or interacts with a giant Turtle. I'm pretty sure this is one of the guardians of the world that King uses in The Dark Tower (I was thinking the Turtle is a lot like Shardik from Wastelands). Anyway, the Turtle tells Bill a few cryptic things and off he goes.
Does anyone here know what the Turtle was saying and what he meant? Was the creature in IT part of that world? I was thinking he was a soldier of the Crimson King or something?
Anyway, I'm very interested in all of Kings creatures and worldly denizens so any help is greatly appreciated.

[Robert Gray]

The Turtle in "It" is not like the cybernetic bear from the Dark Tower series. Those constructions were made by men utilizing science as replacements (and poor ones at that) when the magic receded. The Turtle in "It" is a being of vast cosmic power and scope. It is a being that vomits up entire galaxies. It is turn, it is implied, was spawned by another (in theory greater) force.

It is not a solider of the Crimson King. It serves no one but itself. Like the Turtle, It is an entity of vast cosmic power. It is so massive and beyond our scope that ambitions such as domination and control are beneath it. It already perceives itself as a God and as such has no need nor desire to create intricate plans nor turn the multiverse on its ear. It simply is. There is always a danger, I think, in trying to fully link all of Sai King's stories together in some sort of logical, direct context. There are connections, certainly, but they are more feelings and echoes in some cases.

I like to point people toward Greek mythology to explain this point. Today, we have this nice, neat idea of the Greek Gods. We have an ordered pantheon, with a complete geneology of who is related to whom. We have applied a format and a pattern to a group of entities that aside from geography were linked distantly at best. Many of the Greek Gods were not know all over Greece nor did they exist in the same cultural timeline of others. Our desire for pattern has defined them as such in the popular zeitgeist but it isn't true, not is it meaningful. This is a good object lesson for Sai King's stories.

Treat each one (or each one of a single series) as distinct. They are "the" story at the time and whatever feelings or echoes they may have of other tales is beside the point. You are far more likely to read too much into them than you are to discern any hidden truths. When it comes down to the Turtle and It, I think it is best to simply go by the information in the book itself. In the case of the Turtle, there is no reason for it to lie. There is no reason for us to assume anything about it beyond what it indicates itself. As far as It is concerned, we get a direct look into the entity's mind. No lie or subterfuge is possible there. It is not a foot soldier of the Crimson King. It isn't involved in intricate plots. It pleasures itself on lesser beings and feeds. Then it sleeps. It comes back and pleasures itself on lesser beings and feeds. Then it sleeps again. It prepares for the propigation of its young. The point isn't that this being is simple or unsophisticated. The truth is far more frightening than that. The point is that it is so far beyond humans and their reality that understanding of It beyond these terms is impossible.

[Samantha_]

I don't think there's a nice, neat idea of Greek Gods ... there are many intercorrelations and an overlay of theories regarding both origin and meaning.

As to the Turtle, for me, the same idea, as written above, applies ...

There are many Native American legends about the Turtle and other legends, as well.

I agree it's best just to read the story in context. Life is full of connections, some are meaningful and others just coincidence.

Just my take.

[Lencho_of_the_Apes]

The Turtle is in DT series as The Turtle, you don't have to compare it to other things.

We all float down here.

[tyciol]

I always found the Turtle the most interesting thing about the book. I'd only seen the movie so when I heard about this opposite to It, it made it a lot more interesting.

Since they'll be remaking the movie soon with Warner Bros, hopefully they go into more detail and don't gloss over it. For all we know, it might inspire all the books to get movies!

Or, if there are budget problems, maybe they can try to get a Japanese studio to make an anime to put everything together? Ongoing series are much better for jumping around various storylines.

[AtomicAgeEthan]

Well,...If another series of "It" was to be made, I would really enjoy an HBO thing to happen with real budgets and a good actor "pull".

I appreciate all the comments about the Turtle. I understand what you are saying about not needing more than what is given.

I also find this answer to be (kindly and only in my opinion) incorrect.

Not on your part. I think it is correct for you. Not for me.

If that is the reason? I'll accept it.

Here's why I won't accept it (if you are interested. If not; no harm, no foul!:cool2:)
There have been too many stories (books) illustrating mid-world and the things that lie (in wait?) on it's shores for me to just simply ignore the fact that the Turtle is something unrelated entirely.
Maybe it's a mere hope of mine that I learn more about him.
If that's all it is and all I have to go on it what is in the chapters of "It"? Then so be it.

:smile2:

[thymeoperator]

taking DT out of the equation for a moment, i felt like the turtle was a bit like their parents. IT says the turtle's not there to save them anymore, and likewise they were now the adults, there was no one to come and save them if things got too scary, no one to look to for advice (not that they got it as kids, but still), so i thought it was a great metaphor for having to grow up. i don't know if it was intention on SK's part or not, but that was something i personally got from it and was quite happy with.

[Flipsk8emerica]

I believe that The Turtle in IT is the same entity in The Dark Tower series. I'm not talking about the man made guardian turtle but the turtle that Roland and his ka tet constantly refer to.

"See the TURTLE of enormous girth,
On his shell he holds the earth.
If you want to run and play,
Come along the BEAM today."
(Seen by Jake at the Lot with the Rose)

"See the TURTLE of enormous girth!
On his shell he holds the earth.
His thought is slow but always kind;
He holds us all within his mind.
On his back all vows are made;
He sees the truth but mayn't aid.
He loves the land and loves the sea,
And even loves a child like me."
(As told by Roland)

[JohnDalglish]

Hi,

Just wondering what the Kings have named their pet turtle?

Ms Mod?

Long days and pleasant nights

[Bryan James]

Wiki or Google "Turtle Bear Native American."

[Doc Wilson]

Excellent, delicious thoughts in this thread.

One thing I wish King would take from Gaiman is the idea of playing more with the boundaries of these myths he constructs. I agree that the turtle is an awesome character that just begs for more exploration.

[Moderator]

Hi,

Just wondering what the Kings have named their pet turtle?

Ms Mod?

Long days and pleasant nights

It's Maturin from the Aubrey-Maturin (Patrick O'Brian) novels.

[JohnDalglish]

Hi,

Thankee, Ms M0od, great name!

(Now, where is that turtle shop?)

Long days and pleasant nights