Foul Language in Fiction -- Author vs. Character

[WritersRequiem]

Okay, so this one has been bothering me recently. I imagine I'll get quite a range of answers on this one, but any advice or guidance might help. Let me get down to it--what is done when an author knows his character would say something foul, but the author her/himself would not?

Maybe I need to break it down a bit more. First of all, I have no qualms about swearing up a storm in any piece of fiction I write, particularly if the associated character is that sort of being. However, there are certain words I shy away from. In a piece I'm working on now, an older gentleman becomes like a grandfather to a little girl, but he absolutely despises the girl's mother. It is in first person view--the view of the older man. Anyway, he wants to use the "C" word (sorry ladies) in his narrative, but I have some serious qualms about using that in any fiction and rather wish he'd not. He is dying to, I can feel it, but I won't let him. Another problem is that he doesn't want to use it in his story for the little girl's sake, but feels that the mother deserves it. I guess, in a sense, there are actually three angles here.

So, what do I do? There is some serious friction between the man and the mother, and I feel he should have his way or he'll give up on me and the story will go flat, but I'm wary of such insults. Any pointers?

[JohnDalglish]

Hi,

I feel that any language/action which helps to develop the characterization of the individual character is not only valid but essential.

And welcome to the MB, and keep posting!

Long days and pleasant nights

[Haunted]

You describe the gentleman is being older and very fond of the little girl whose mother is not so nice. I sense an extreme anger at the mother (for what I don't know, but the gentleman does). Does he mean to degrade her?

I don't think he would say such a word. I did not get from your description that he would use such a word. Surely there is another word that is just as venomous but more appropriate for an older gentleman.

[Charms7]

If this was my dilemma, I would choose to let an inner dialog transpire wherein this struggle takes place and then Grandpa can say what he would normally say bearing in mind possible repercussions concerning his granddaughter. In other words, I would opt to keep it real. Even though it is fiction.

[FlakeNoir]

You could try making something up. It wouldn't have to be completely original, maybe a mix of something old, something new, something borrowed, something... almost disgustingly vulgar. Almost being the operative word - it might satisfy the old man, while still allowing you to keep your conscience clear. :biggrin2: Good luck! :)

[Nero]

You could narrate his using the word out of dialogue.

Something that happens in the middle of conversation such as:
-------------------------------------------------
"Conversation, blah blah blah"

Then he called her something that rhymes with punt and has nothing to do with kicking. He'd bottled that one so long he practically threw the word at her.

Then the "reaction" or however you want to go about taking it from there.
--------------------------------------------------

It would be one way to do it :D

[WritersRequiem]

Many good ideas. I should enunciate that his using the word is actually in the narrative, not in conversation, and that he has a strong hate for the mother because she abuses her daughter--badly. I suppose I can do as Nero suggests and narrate his use of the word without actually saying it, but now that I've read your suggestions I might just go ahead and let him use it. Give the oldster his chance, and simply throw my hands in the air if someone has something to say about it in the final cut. "Not my choice; he really wanted to say it, y'know?" Something along those lines. Like SK says, "Reality is Ralph", so I should be able to either sneak this one by or weasel it through.

Thanks, all.

[staropeace]

Charms pounded dat nail!

[xwordslingerx]

Personally, I've had characters that have said things I would never even dream of saying in real life. Sometimes characters happen that way. But, if you really truly have a problem with it, then find another word. There are plenty others you could use, I'm sure. =)

[Srbo]

Hi,

I feel that any language/action which helps to develop the characterization of the individual character is not only valid but essential.



Exactly.

I don`t see Sai King shying away from using profanity...and look where he is today.
The story needs to be told the way you feel it should be told, and if there is some sensitive soul out there " Who Can`t Take It "...yeah, well, so sad, to bad.

[thymeoperator]

personally i say just use the word. the point of fiction is that it's NOT the author. if it's in his dialogue or thoughts, then it's part of characterisation and as a reader, despite how much i personally hate the 'c' word myself, i would have no issue with it if i came across such a thing, so long as it was relevant to the character and not totally out of left field, i.e. just as long as yes the character would say such a thing.

[Rhett]

I think that in order to be true to the story you must be true to the character.

My wife knows the 'c' word and dislikes people who use it. She wants to see them suffer and come to a bad end (at the ruthless hands of people who don't use such low brow vulgarities). If your character uses the 'c' word it would just excite her emotions and make her turn the pages faster.

Its hard to guess how people will react to certain vulgarities. It will depend on the style, the place, the character, and all kinds of subjective measures. It seems like it would be difficult to come to an absolute, logical view.

So, I say apply a subjective solution on the subjective problem: Be true to the story and have some fun.

[Lencho_of_the_Apes]

Words aren't weapons. A word has never killed anybody, and no word has magic powers. People who think saying "the N-word" (instead of saying something else) is a magic formula that makes everything alright are just as silly as people who actually USE that disputed word that I'm not typing. Same goes with the C word; why give so much power to the word as a word?

We all float down here.

[ScarecrowJoe]

i say just let 'er rip. if it feels right, it is right. i have this friend who cusses all the time, but i can tell he's just doing it because he thinks it's cool. it's not sincere, like. now when my dad cusses, which isn't very often, i know he means it. time to chillax and keep a low profile, if you know what i mean!

[aptpupil]

Foul language in fiction?

Who gives a f**k? :cool2:

[Srbo]

Words aren't weapons. A word has never killed anybody, and no word has magic powers.


Ummmmm...disagree completely.

In my old country there is saying that goes something like this :

"A nice word opens many closed gates."

They do have magical powers.

And they did kill, many times...for instance, someone tells you :
"I don`t love you anymore..."

Some people actually died from that...got a broken heart and died...

[tiger_fire]

I personally don't like reading foul language in any book I read and really don't feel it's necessary for any character to use it good or bad. As a reader of a lot of books varying from Martina Cole to J.K to autobiographies by people such as Whoopie Goldberg and Sharron Osborne who we all know to swears like a trouper, I just to think it needs to be in print! I think it seems a lot worse when you see it in black and white. I don't claim to be a saint as I do sometimes use bad words:glare: but I just don't think it's essential to get the feel of a character to have them swearing all through a book.

[jnote]

I'm not a writer, but as a reader, I don't mind reading profanity if it works for the character. The "c" word isn't usually used, but under the circumstances of the situation you discribed, go for it. Or use Nero's suggestion. Readers are smart enough to get what you are saying without actually saying it.

[SKfan2006]

some of my stories will have swearing and cussing but only when it's needed. like i could use a character who could cuss up a storm even though i don't cuss or swear that often. all these words are is just to show their personality and to show how they act in a fit of anger in which they say stuff they would never say calmly.

[Haunted]

I felt that the way the older gentleman was described that such a word was not one ready on his tongue. If a character speaks out of his character he loses credibility?

[Mr Nobody]

Like others have said, it has to stay in character. Regardless of how kindly he is, vocabulary and means of expression would come down to the usual things: class, upbringing, etc. It also sounds like it'd be an extreme usage vented in anger at a hated, despised person. Sorry, but 'you nasty old thing' didn't cut it when the world was in black and white, and it won't cut it now because it sounds so phony.
The word, in this case, would not only contain everything the old man felt, but would be a smack across the chops for recipient and reader alike - so, go ahead...but only if it really is in character.

[w666]

Steve addresses this point eloquently in "On Writing"....so well, in fact, that it needs no further debate once you grasp his point. I don't recall it verbatim, however, so I'll go dig up the reference and post it later.

[w666]

For the AR amongst us, please refer to your HC version of "On Writing". Go to "-7-" (page 180) of the section titled "On Writing", following the section called "Toolbox".

[michal]

I personally would hate it if all the characters sound the same or reflect the same moral/ beliefs/ style/ level of education/ verbal similarity. To quote Mark Twain - "If all men thought alike we wouldn't have horse racing" and let me add: If all characters spoke and acted alike, we wouldn't have good stories. Let them act like they are -they are of your creation, but not necessarily you.