Female Voice

[michal]

This is one of the few of Mr. King's books that is told in a mature female tone. There is The Girl who Liked Tom Gordon, Carrie and FireStarters, but these are young girls and the story is about them, but isn't necessarily from their own point of view.

Dolores Claiborn is all about her, and elderly woman with her strong minded opinions. I wonder if Mr. King found this book (and leading character) harder to write than others.

[Moderator]

He drew on memories of his mother for the character of Dolores so I would say it wasn't harder to capture the spirit of Dolores.

[Bev Vincent]

You should also check out Rose Madder, Gerald's Game and Lisey's Story for other books told in a "mature female tone."

[michal]

You should also check out Rose Madder, Gerald's Game and Lisey's Story for other books told in a "mature female tone."

I've read all of them, of course, but I guess it's that First Person tone that I find so unique in this one. You see, in the other books you've mentioned the story is ABOUT the women, in Dolores Claiborn it's HER story. Do I make sense?

But you are right, Gerald's Game is very close to that, because the heroin's personal story is the only one that matters. Have to tell you though, in Lisey's Story, in spite of the headline, it felt like the story that was most interesting was the one of her husband and the mystery that surrounded his life.

[Hirsty]

I'm re-reading Dolores at the moment, and loving it as much as ever :)
I have a couple of friends who are convinced that the writing in this one is as much Tabitha as Stephen...
just a theory to throw out there ;)

[Donald W. DeClicko]

I just finished Dolores for the first time. Definitely way better than I was expecting.

[motocop]

I liked this book a lot. Some say its their least favorite SK book, maybe so, but still very good. I thought it was cool that Doloraes and Jesse from Geralds game had a connection while both watching the same eclipse. Even years later Dolores could sense when Jesse was in trouble locked to the bed. There was also a cool yet very brief connection with Insomnia. Anybody remember that?

[GNTLGNT]

I still live in mortal fear of those big damned dust bunnies! There ain't enuff Endust on the globe to tackle those babies!

[Clairegriff]

hi i've just read DC and am halfway through Insomnia, haven't spotted a connection yet, (could be coz Insomnia is GIVING me insomnia!!), can you highlight it for me?? thanks!!

[Pucker]

hi i've just read DC and am halfway through Insomnia, haven't spotted a connection yet, (could be coz Insomnia is GIVING me insomnia!!), can you highlight it for me?? thanks!!

Interesting.

I found Insomnia to be a perfect cure for insomnia.

:sleepy: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz . . .



As far as Dolores Claiborne is concerned, I remember very clearly not liking it when I first read it long and many years ago, but I re-read it recently and couldn't imagine what it was that turned me off the first time. Mr. King tends to be a little heavy-handed (to my way of thinking) with his rote, black-and-white depictions of abusive realtionships, and I think the younger version of me probably found that annoying. I suppose over the years I've become inured to the universal artistic axiom that men are beneath contempt and women define sublimity, and we all just have to deal with that.

:wink2:

[bobledrew]

You found DC to be rote or black & white? Hm. Keep in mind -- Dolores was a murderer. She is not without positive qualities; she is loyal, she is a woman who believes in the value of hard work, she has a good sense of humour.

But at the end of the day, she chose to kill Joe St. George. She had other choices available to her; she chose to kill him to avenge her daughter, and to avenge his besting her in terms of the money she had salted away. It was her pride that led her to murder, IMNSHO. She had other choices. I think Dolores is one of King's most compelling characters, and the book one of his best. But she is far from sublime.

[Clairegriff]

hi i've just read DC and am halfway through Insomnia, haven't spotted a connection yet, (could be coz Insomnia is GIVING me insomnia!!), can you highlight it for me?? thanks!!

weirdly, about an hour after I wrote this, I picked up the book and got to the connection - the weird sisters right? one who threads, one who measures, one who cuts the thread (or something like that!!)

[Weirdmonger]

Someone, on a private discussion forum, claims today that Stephen King
“indulges in some intense sadistic/ misogynistic treatment of women” when writing in the First Person Female.
Gerald's Game in particular was cited.

I myself feel such claims are deeply unresolvable.
Different readers will take different things from a specific author’s work, some
taking the work at face value, others impugning authorial intentions.

I think one should give any author the benefit of the doubt, i.e. that he or she
is telling a story for its own sake rather than from ulterior motives.
I have just reviewed King’s FULL DARK, NO STARS and I feel he is, in this work,
seeking redemption in his treatement of guilt, in fact offering himself as a
spear-carrier for the world. But, of course, that may be rubbish.

df lewis

[Moderator]

I've known Steve for nearly 25 years and based on that, I've never seen anything but respectful treatment of women from him and no signs whatsoever that he personally holds misogynistic feelings about them. On the contrary, IRL he treats them very well and it comes from a place of genuine feeling of appreciation for women. Even in the case of Gerald's Game, it's very clear that Jessie wasn't going to be the victim and I saw her as a woman who overcame present and past experiences with courage and personal strength. I'd say this is another case of a reader putting something in that was never intended.

[JohnDalglish]

I've known Steve for nearly 25 years and based on that, I've never seen anything but respectful treatment of women from him and no signs whatsoever that he personally holds misogynistic feelings about them. On the contrary, IRL he treats them very well and it comes from a place of genuine feeling of appreciation for women. Even in the case of Gerald's Game, it's very clear that Jessie wasn't going to be the victim and I saw her as a woman who overcame present and past experiences with courage and personal strength. I'd say this is another case of a reader putting something in that was never intended.

Hi,

Well, that's certainly exactly the impression I've gained from his writing over the years.

Methinks the critic is reading from their own, somewhat skewed perspective.

Sadistiic/misogynist? Lisey Landon or Rosie Daniels? I don't think so!

Long days and pleasant nights

[Weirdmonger]

Thanks, Moderator.
I agree.

There has been a lot of discussion on that forum and I think I'm right in saying that the originator of the thread about the First Person Female was alone.

But the experience of having read Gerald's Game (and later Lisey's Story, apparently) is preventing that reader ever reading SK in a First Person Female narrative again, apparently.

I think, however, it is an interesting attitude to know about within the realms of literary criticism and in the light of the 'Intentional Fallacy' (a theory that I've been interested in since the 1960s), even if one disagrees with that attitude.
des

[Moderator]

If the women in the stories hadn't overcome their circumstances, I could understand the reader's point but my take-away is that Steve intended the reader to see that they were much stronger in character than those who were hurting them and under extraordinary situations were victors, not victims.

[Mookie]

If the women in the stories hadn't overcome their circumstances, I could understand the reader's point but my take-away is that Steve intended the reader to see that they were much stronger in character than those who were hurting them and under extraordinary situations were victors, not victims.

My Sister was a victim of violent crime. ( what happened to Tess happened to her) I just lent her my copy of FDNS because I KNOW that she will appreciate how( Big Driver) it ends. I didn't see Tess as a victim, and I don't think she will either. Of course in real life we can't do what Tess did.......But sometimes it's cathartic when the monster get's his. I've never seen any of Stephen King's female characters as weak victims....Quite the opposite in fact, they get mad and change their circumstances.

[blunthead]

...I'd say this is another case of a reader putting something in that was never intended.

What Mod says. Has to be. When reading sK's female characters what I have heard is the exact opposite of "sadistic/misogynistic". I think that reader's distrust of Steve at the outset and lack of personal insight and intellectual honesty allows him or her to hear and see things which are not there.

[Weirdmonger]

I'd say it is fine to take what you actually find yourself taking from any book, as posters do above about 'strong women'.

And as that reader - about whom I am reporting - takes from certain SK works that there is, in their view, too much 'indulging' in the description of certain events when writing in the First Person Female.

Equally, I'd say it is impossible to infer intentions behind any of these personal 'takes' with regard to an author him- or herself, bearing in mind all the layers of narration, collusiveness, non-collusiveness etc. that prevail.

Equally, again, even authors themselves can not fully know their own intentions. It is, I feel, often a 'spiritually muse-like' experience writing certain intense fiction. So, a complex issue. And the story is all that counts and what *you* take from it, not what you think the author intended you to take from it. IMO.