The Horn of Eld

[MyJadedEpiphany]

I was just curious to get everyone's opinion concerning the significance of Roland having the Horn of Eld when he begins his journey again? Is it possible that SK may consider adding more to Roland's tale in the years to come? I loved the ending of the series and was left feeling hungry to know more about the characters I felt so connected to.

[michal]

For me it meant that while Ka is a wheel, it is not a perfect wheel and humans can change their destiny.

In so, the ending was hopeful to me. Same journey, but not exactly the same, and Roland isn't the same so maybe this time it will be a better.

But hey -that's just me :laugh:.

[MyJadedEpiphany]

That was the feeling I got as well. Of course you can't help but wonder what it was that changed and how his journey will be different this time around.

[soxfan]

The horn symbolizes his final journey in the loop. The final Stanza of "Childe Rolande to the Dark Tower Came" has the protaganist blowing a horn upon hearing the voices from his past.

[wally wonder]

i dunno, but if he's going to play in texas, he better have a fiddle in the band.

[tammydee5]

I feel the significance is huge. Three is a very significant number throughout the series. I feel he needs all three pieces to the puzzle to successfully ascend the tower and defeat the Crimson King. He needs the horn of Eld and both sandalwood guns of the Eld line. I'm assuming, by the ending of the final book, that if SK were to write a continuance on the ending part of the journey, it would involve Jake, Eddie, and Susannah finding the gun that Susannah threw away upon entering that new when. I feel as if each time Roland has ascended the tower he has missed a step along the way, for instance in this version of ascension he only ascended the tower with one gun and no horn; thus, causing the ka wheel to keep on turning and he must keep on journeying until he has acquired all the pieces. I am also assuming this based on the emphasis on the horn being dropped in the fourth book, Wizard and Glass, as well as the repetition by the Crimson King talking about the infamous sandalwood grips of the gunslinger . Based on this I am assuming the last time he ascended, when Cuthbert and Alain were in his ka-tet, he had both guns but was short the horn because it was dropped on the plains of the Meji's and that is why he had to continue is pursuit of the Dark Man across the desert once more with the ka-Tet of Suze, Jake, and Eddie. And as a side note: I feel the reason Suze, Jake and Eddie managed to refind each other during a different when was because Roland found the appropriate ka-tet finally but was just short the pieces of Eld. In my heart as a C.R. I imagine that Roland will redraw those three and they will journey with him once again but this time successfully.

[Adam_Murdock]

Roland never reached the Tower with Cuthbert and Alain. Every time he repeats the journey, he starts in the Mohaine desert, after Gilead has fallen. Gilead was the first sacrifice he made in his quest for the Tower, and is the only one he can't take back. The quest itself is Roland's chance to redeem himself.

As for the Horn of Eld, it's significance has nothing to do with breaching the Tower, but everything to do with Roland's salvation. Cuthbert's last request was that Roland would pick up the Horn if it fell. Roland disregarded this request in favor of living to reach the Tower. It is this willingness to sacrifice others that damns him to repeat the quest until he learns otherwise.

In the repetition the book series concerns, Roland displays, probably for the first time, remorse at the death of his ka-tet. The Tower rewards him by allowing him another chance to retrieve the Horn and honor his best friend's dying wish. The fact that he took it leads the reader to believe that he has learned from his mistakes, that this trip may end with his salvation, and that this time, when he reaches the Tower, he won't be alone.

[Lencho_of_the_Apes]

Gilead was the first sacrifice he made in his quest for the Tower, and is the only one he can't take back.

It is this willingness to sacrifice others that damns him to repeat the quest until he learns otherwise.



The first time we see Roland sacrifice another being to his own ambitions is when he's being tried to qualify for Gunslinger status, and he trains his hawk to make a suicide attack on his tester. Picking up the Horn Of Eld was a step in the right direction, but I think he has a lot of bad decisions still to unlearn or atone for.

We all float down here.

[Ebdim9th]

Since things, once done in Roland's world, like the head or tail keystone world of the rose, who is Roland chasing now? Randall Flagg is irretrievably dead at the mandibles of Mordred. If its a twinner, how did he get into the desert from his own world, and why?

[wally wonder]

give joe's book a read, heart-shaped box, perhaps there's an answer there.

[Doc Wilson]

The horn symbolizes his final journey in the loop. The final Stanza of "Childe Rolande to the Dark Tower Came" has the protaganist blowing a horn upon hearing the voices from his past.

Now this is interesting...

[BlackThorn]

I always figured the horn symbolized his humanity in some way. With the horn in his possession, maybe Roland wasn't the grueling beast he had otherwise become... maybe he was someone who had friends, and a reason for his quest, beyond the quest itself. I figured, just the time he would muse over his fathers horn who fell from his dying ka-mates hand, would change his ultimate path down the course we already saw him take.

I was really happy that Roland had the horn in the end. It was such a small thing, but it meant so much. Where there is chaos, there is chance, and even with just a snowballs chance in hell... Roland could at least have something to work with.

Of course, a horn to me symbolizes masculinity and power and strength, coupled with natural beauty. Don't know how that would relate to Roland making choices that would save his life, other than damn it.

But it always seemed extremely important that he got that horn. And the only part it would truly play, would be in Rolands own mind. The tet mates wouldn't have needed it to sound, at any point. So the only change would have been in Rolands own mind, and memories. Of course, he's a machine. I don't know what part that really could have played, either.

Something about in his dreams, he heard the horn sounding when he approached the tower. I think he was supposed to sound that horn himself. Maybe that was his true key, he otherwise missed. Either way, if things changed, Roland was given not only another chance, but another tool as well.

Who knows. Amazing story though, either way. :)

[Nilloc]

Since things, once done in Roland's world, like the head or tail keystone world of the rose, who is Roland chasing now? Randall Flagg is irretrievably dead at the mandibles of Mordred. If its a twinner, how did he get into the desert from his own world, and why?
I wondered that as well . . . Perhaps the Tower somehow resurrected Flagg as a way to make Roland's journey continue on?

[costanza]

Go back and read the expanded version of The Gunslinger again. Walter tells Roland that he "never learns". [spoiler] Flagg is aware that Roland has taken the journey before. He's in the loop in more ways than one. [spoiler/]

[CaseyM]

Wow, I was just posting in another thread that I thought that Roland must not have done something right, which was why he was doomed to repeat his journey. These posts have been very helpful in showing me some of the possible answers as to what he was doing wrong. Thanks to all for the insight!

[thymeoperator]

For some reason I can't seem to be able to thank BlackThorn - I just wanted to post this to say thanks for the reminder about that stuff Walter says in 'The Gunslinger'!!

[Bev Vincent]

I think the horn symbolizes improvement, but not necessarily the final improvement. He's getting better, he isn't so obsessed by the Tower that he can't take his eyes away for a moment, but he's still pretty obsessed. Small improvements, gradual iterations toward perfection.

[Wanderer From Ys]

Since things, once done in Roland's world, like the head or tail keystone world of the rose, who is Roland chasing now? Randall Flagg is irretrievably dead at the mandibles of Mordred. If its a twinner, how did he get into the desert from his own world, and why?

I'm pretty sure he was send back in time, not just send back to the desert. We are told repeatedly that time only moves one way in the keystone world, but if anything had the power to affect it, it would be the tower itself. Also if Roland were just repeating his same journey, without going back in time, wouldn't he get recognized more, as well as wonder what happened to his right hand.

[Ebdim9th]

Yikes, good thought... the Powers That Be keep restoring his hand and he keeps losing it again... either they're really cruel or he is (to himself)

[SleepingWarrior]

I'm pretty sure he was send back in time, not just send back to the desert. We are told repeatedly that time only moves one way in the keystone world, but if anything had the power to affect it, it would be the tower itself. Also if Roland were just repeating his same journey, without going back in time, wouldn't he get recognized more, as well as wonder what happened to his right hand.

That is assuming that he loses his hand on the beach after each encounter with Walter. Also where does it say he goes back in time? A few times its been mentioned that Gilead had fallen hundreds of years before, no sign or eyewitnesses to Gunslingers for the same amount of time, etc etc. Also by the same token, if the Tower has the power to keep throwing Roland back to the desert and giving him items such as the Horn of the Eld it could easily restore his hand and cure his drytwist (arthritis).

Either of us could be right, we both could be in parts or we could both be wrong but I just find the statements about Gilead having fallen hundreds of years before the most intriguing thing when it comes to whether he is in a time loop or not.

[coolambindang]

It seems like a lot of you think Roland was either thrown back in time or he was sent into another dimension, but in this dimension or time he has possession of the horn. If he was thrown back in time does he have the memories from his last round with the Tower? Is he in another dimension with the horn but on his journey for the first time(in his mind). If it is a continuation from the journey we are privy to, does that mean only a few beams hold the tower together or are the beams that broke still broken? In that case the Tower would be even closer to destruction. I think that he was sent back in time and he is in another dimension, that being said there are as many beams holding up the tower as there were when WE(readers) met Roland for the first time. As has been mentioned before he has another piece to the puzzle in the form of the horn but not necessarily all the right pieces. As stated before Ka is a wheel and Roland has turned to the right place. The fact that Gilead fell hundreds of years ago just goes the fact that time is becoming thin. As Roland continued his quest years and years have gone by. After his conversation with Marten on the beach, Roland awakes thousands of years later. Time is thin.

[SleepingWarrior]

It seems like a lot of you think Roland was either thrown back in time or he was sent into another dimension, but in this dimension or time he has possession of the horn. If he was thrown back in time does he have the memories from his last round with the Tower? Is he in another dimension with the horn but on his journey for the first time(in his mind). If it is a continuation from the journey we are privy to, does that mean only a few beams hold the tower together or are the beams that broke still broken? In that case the Tower would be even closer to destruction. I think that he was sent back in time and he is in another dimension, that being said there are as many beams holding up the tower as there were when WE(readers) met Roland for the first time. As has been mentioned before he has another piece to the puzzle in the form of the horn but not necessarily all the right pieces. As stated before Ka is a wheel and Roland has turned to the right place. The fact that Gilead fell hundreds of years ago just goes the fact that time is becoming thin. As Roland continued his quest years and years have gone by. After his conversation with Marten on the beach, Roland awakes thousands of years later. Time is thin.

Ahhhh but that was answered by Flagg (Walter) himself later in the series... he placed another set of bones in his clothes to trick Roland into believing he is dead.

As for remembering he has been on the journey before... that only happens momentarily after he opens the door at the top of the tower and is kicked back.

In The Wastelands when they come to River Crossing before reaching Lud some of the townsfolk talk about last seeing a gunslinger 100 years before, give or take. My personal belief is that it was Roland they saw.

[Wordslinger2]

Ok, I have read the posts up to this point, and I have to ask, did none of you read the part where when he opened the door at the top of the Tower he cried out No, and then his vision blurred(I think I would need to re-read that passage again) and he didn't remember a thing. Once the hands of Gan threw/pushed him through the door he lost his memories of the journey. But he has the horn, the voice whispered to him that perhaps this time it would be different, that there was hope, Redemption instead of Resumption. I think we think of the ending is what we have taken from the story ourselves.

As for Flagg, was he ever killed in Keystone Earth? I don't think so- Nor in any other earth but he was killed by Mordred in the world of The Dark Tower. So he still isn't realy dead. Flagg/Marten can be plucked out of time just as easily as Roland was plucked out and placed back at the edge of The Mohaine.

[knittinjen]

This is interesting discussion. I always thought since first reading the last page that this was his 19th trip to the Dark Tower, and the one he was thrown back into would be his 20th - for obvious reasons. I hope SK writes a novel about Jericho Hill one day - about the end of Alain and Cuthbert, when Roland was snatched away (into the Mohaine where we first find him?). I see there is a comic book about Jericho Hill - I'll have to learn to like that format because I gotta read it!

[BlaineThePain]

I love this thread. All of the ideas for possibilities here enrich the story that much more for me. Because the story is left open-ended (or, to make up a word, open-beginninged) there are so many ways to look at everything, and I was of the mind that the horn was simply a symbol of hope for the salvation of Roland's soul. But the idea that the the horn is a key, that the books are Roland's 19th trip, Roland being the gunslinger seen 100 years ago in River Crossing...I just love it. I think it's really something that a story can keep growing well after the author typed out The End.
I sometimes think that the journey to the Tower itself is what's bringing it down. Or, at least, the ending of the journey. Every time Roland's stepped through that last door and was dragged back to the beginning he kind of ripped up the world as he went. Like erasing a picture on a piece of paper. You can start all over again, but the paper's going to start to wear and thin and eventually rip apart. And if this is Roland's 19 trip, he probably has about 1,980 more to go until he gets it right, or he may never at all. Ka is a wheel, but Roland's a stone cold son of a b****. Then again, if he kills with his heart, he must have one helluva heart.

[Deesha]

Hello, new member here.. :)
I agree completely, I think he continues the same cycle over and over and each time he and his ka-tet get better at it, if you know what I mean. There are too many situations where things should not have worked out, but they did. I think he's been at it plenty of times, and now has gotten to the end with almost the right sequence of events. He simply has to get the right pieces before the quest is really over. If any of that makes sense. In my mind that explains the uncanny intuition they all have. I'm rereading the series, and I'm now halfway through the last book (I've shed many a tear through most of it, I won't lie). Just adding my five cents worth, recently discovered this site. I read about the new Dark Tower book, I'm really amped about it.

[Robert Gray]

He won't actually repeat the same cycle over again. He will likely draw new companions from other worlds. Some might be familiar but they will not be the same. The Gunslinger is the only one who stands in the eye of the hurricane, next to the Tower. Certain things are concrete in the infinite variety of the many worlds. In some places time only goes in one direction. Thus, while Roland can go back in time to restart in his own world (we know that place isn't limited by one direction and speed) at least one world cannot be visited again by Roland, at least not in that time. I hope you can follow. Sai King has not given ups a reset in the bad movie/television variety. It is far more complex than that. Roland will move forward again, but the other people whose lives Roland has already touched in previous incarnations continue forward (or not) as he touched them. This isn't truly a Groundhog Day situation, and Roland isn't Bill Murray. Those things happened. They are not backtracked to be replayed. Mrs. Dean continues forward in the world she met alternate Eddie and Jake. She will remember even if Roland does not.

[KyleKarabekian]

Childe Roland had the horn when he reached the Tower, and Roland Deschain did not. Roland also wasn;t affected by sacrficing people to get to the Tower, at first. Then by the end, he was all sad about the great loss he had suffered, and Ka let him have the horn, the key to breaking the cycle of the Tower. That is what I got out of it anyway.

[One Man Ka-Tet]

I just finished the series and have to say....AMAZING! But, my opinion on the horn is that it is just another piece of the puzzle that is Roland's redemption. He is doomed to repeat the Tower Cycle until he ultimately understands that there are far greater things than climbing the Tower; friendship, love, self-sacrifice, etc. I believe that on this cycle, the one we read, that Roland understood the meaning of love/true friendship by way of Eddie, Susannah, Jake, and of course Oy (remember Roland yelling at Oy saying that he could have left if he wanted to but chose to stay, Roland was conflicted about apologizing to a Bumbler, but in the end did). Therefore, upon repeating the cycle the Tower offers him the Horn, which now understanding true friendship, Roland would have picked it up following Cuthbert's death at Jericho Hill. Along with this we come to see that several times he was asked to abandon his quest for the Tower, that it was saved because the Beams were saved (stopped the Breakers and saved King) and that he can now live his life in peace knowing that the Tower is safe. We know that the Crimson King is locked outside of the Tower and as a result is of no importance. The Tower will stand, the Beams will heal, and all of existence is saved. Yet, Roland continues his single minded quest to scale the Tower. In my opinion, it is the abandoning of the Quest, following the rescue of the Beams that will be Roland's ultimate redemption. Ka pushes him to save the beams, but the Tower is not meant to be climbed. Afterall, he did decide to do so only after seeing the image of the Tower in the Pink glass, and remember it says that only sad/depressing images are shown in it. The Pink glass was showing Roland his futile quest for the Tower, understanding the pain it would bring him for all eternity. I hope that my rambling makes sense to those who read it and I want to say that it is a pleasure to meet all of you and that I am glad to be in the company of fellow DT fans. Perhaps my theories are the musings of a madman, but I know that I will continue to ponder the meaning of Roland's quest for a long time. Look forward to hearing other theories on the horn/cycle.
Say thankya.

[Electricman707]

I agree with you on this. But why didn't Patrick draw Susannah with new legs before she left?

[Electricman707]

There is definetly something about this horn. Adam and Tammydee both have good points. I am still thinking about it.

[daysend88]

I felt like this also. I read "The Song of Roland" Which is the French epic and the character in this poem is roland and he ends up killing himself with his horn. this gives me mixed feelings about the end now and am not sure if Stephen King meant to make that specific connection or not. what do you think?

[Evan of New York]

Howdy, I'm a brand new member and since I've been reading these posts, I've found it adds such a fascinating depth to the tale.
I just finished the last Dark Tower, and I've read all of the posts up to this point. If I may add my two cents, I think that everybody's right in a way. The possession of the Horn of Eld at the end symbolizes another lesson that Roland has learned on the level of his soul - this one being the value of love and true friendship, since he honored Cuthbert's last wishes- maybe finally allowing him entrance into the top of the Dark Tower. There were definite allusions (or foreshadowings, or pre-foreshadowings, if it does ya) to Roland repeating his quest, the folk from River Crossing saying they saw a gunslinger 100 years ago, Walter telling Roland that he just doesn't get it, I'm sure there are more references throughout. Whoever said that the character's scary sense of intuition was a clue that they'd been through the journey on some level was brilliant, it's almost as if they'd been there before and remembered the things they needed to save them. I think that on this next journey, with Roland's new found knowledge of the importance of friendship and love, he might enter the tower with the complete ka-tet. If you really think about it, none of the main tet needed to die: Eddie's death could've been saved if somebody had seen Prentiss's weapon sooner, Jake could've been saved if they had been a few seconds earlier in arriving at King's location on the road, and Oy could've lived if there was another person to keep watch (Eddie, Jake, Suzie) for Mordred. Even so, I think that each time Roland repeats his journey, he gains another key to the Dark Tower, and he gains more wisdom, so that's why the ending takes place in the last few pages: it isn't important. As Sai King said, "Endings are heartless" the heart, the importance is in the journey. Though I think that this time, Roland will conquer the Dark Tower when he blows the the Horn of Eld, as was writ in the last line of Browning's poem.
I hope that this wasn't too much of a ramble!
-Long days, and pleasant nights.

[randallFlaggfan1]

The horn symbolizes his final journey in the loop. The final Stanza of "Childe Rolande to the Dark Tower Came" has the protaganist blowing a horn upon hearing the voices from his past.

Soxfan - I appreciate your input. It's certainly awesome (not to mention interesting) to know that Sai King incorporated parts of the epic poem into his series!

[Pucker]

More than the horn, I think Roland's releasing of Susannah -- and thus sparing her life -- was the pivotal moment in the next phase of Roland's awakening . . . if, in fact, there is to be any awakening. Throughout the saga I kept getting hammered by the notion that Roland doesn't understand the nature of his quest at all. In much the same way Mr. King cautions us to enjoy the journey and not worry so much about the end, Roland is obsessed with his destination and cares not at all how he gets there. He does, indeed, have a lesson to learn, but he's a long way from recognizing it when last we see him, in my opinion.

[MemnochTheDevil]

Roland is in an endless cycle of repeating his quest for the Dark Tower over and over again until he learns what Gan wants him to learn. This could be love, friendship, etc. or it could simply be that Roland has to make what Gan considers the "right" decisions and choices throughout his quest to reach the Dark Tower. At the end of the attempt we read about in books 1-7, he once again reaches the top of the Dark Tower, opens the door, and ends up right back where he started, in the desert, chasing the man in black. But this time, he is chasing the man in black with the Horn of Eld by his side, a reward from Gan for the progress he made and the things he learned in the last cycle (i.e., books 1-7). So this time, he will repeat his quest for the Dark Tower, but it will be his last. When Roland shows up at the field of roses in front of the Dark Tower and blows the Horn of Eld, it will all be over.

The whole thing starts over each time in the desert with Roland having no surface memories of what transpired during his previous attempt to reach the Dark Tower, but memories of each quest are embedded deep in his subconscious. This is a necessary element of serving the "purpose" as Roland does. If Roland's memories were wiped completely clean at the beginning of each attempt to reach the Dark Tower, he would be doomed to repeat each attempt to reach the Dark Tower at "random" and this would lead to chaos. Roland has to be able to learn from past experiences and grow toward what Gan wants him to learn, even if this is only accomplished on the deepest and most subconscious of levels. This also helps him achieve what seems like the impossible in various situations throughout books 1-7.

The whole cycle (books 1-7) starts over each time and we see the same characters and events each time. This serves the purpose, fate, destiny, etc. If Roland encountered 7 books worth of random characters and events each time he repeated his quest to reach the Dark Tower and learn what Gan wants to teach him, it would lead to complete chaos and Roland would only be able to end his quest by random chance.

I like the idea of Roland having made this journey 18 times (the 18th being the quest we read about in books 1-7), and that the 19th time would be with the Horn of Eld and would be his final attempt. But that would have to be up to Gan, fate, destiny, etc. There is nothing saying that Roland couldn't have learned what Gan wanted him to learn by attempt 9 or any other try, but he may have been destined to accomplish his final journey to the Dark Tower during attempt 19.

I didn’t pick up many details about the Horn of Eld in books 1-7, but it is evident that it’s the last piece in the puzzle of Roland’s quest. It bothered me that Roland didn’t destroy the Crimson King in book 7. He was erased and becomes a non-issue, but he wasn’t completely destroyed. Maybe blowing the Horn of Eld completely destroys the Crimson King and ends the struggle between the White and the Red, more properly ending Roland’s quest. But how does that affect Danville’s purpose? Maybe it is simply an element necessary for the door at the top of the tower to drop Roland off somewhere besides back in the desert chasing the man in black (kind of like how black 13 helped manage the door in the cave of voices). Or it could have no other significance than simply a trophy of Gan’s approval that Roland has learned what he wanted him to. I just hate to think that Roland learned everything Gan wanted him too, but Gan makes him seek out the Dark Tower one more time for good measure, with the Horn of Eld not functioning as a tool or weapon of some sort.

[bgheff]

The horn, in addition to being a sign of his linage, represented a promise. Originally, he ignored Cuthberts dieing wish and left the horn there. In factWhen Roland reaches the Tower and hears the horn sound from the roses, he hears the Tower point out it would have only taken him all of three seconds to collect the horn, had he cared toThe fact that he has it this time around shows that he respected the wish of his dead friend and holds to his memory. If Roland is able to care about his new ka-tet much earlier this time instead of thinking them as tools, reaching the tower may end up different. At the very least, it shows he has learned a lesson about loving his friends.

[Kevin Enns]

I like to think that he ultimately didn't find redemption anyway, and that he keeps on doing the same quest infinity more times. Except maybe the battle with the Crimson King is better in this version.

[Chris1974100]

I think thats not a possibility

[charlotte98]

I was thinking about Eddie and Cuthbert, I keep thinking they must be twinners. That Eddie is Cuthbert, re-incarnated. And when Eddie sees the horn of Eld, he will remember his life as Cuthbert.
Is that crazy?

Also, I feel like Roland having the horn will somehow help him in his quest.... and... maybe this time he won't let Jake fall. That broke my heart.

Thoughts?