***Possible Spoilers*** Roland opened the door at the top....

[Patricia A]

IF YOU HAVE NOT FINISHED DT VII DO NOT ENTER. :biggrin2:

I've been reading some varied posts about the ending of the DT series and what Roland found when he opened the door at the top of the tower.

Some people didn't like the way it ended but personally I think it wouldn't have worked as well any other way. So what do you think?


I had a little chuckle to myself though when I pictured Roland opening the door and found it was an entrance to a Starbucks.

[wvlggreg]

I didn't like it. After reading the whole series I felt let down. Reminds me of Robert Jordan's Wheel of TIme Series. Everything goes around in one big circle (or wheel of time). When I found out that Roland keeps repeating his whole life cycle over and over again I felt cheated out of an ending. Mayhaps I felt sorry for him.

[Nutty Bavarian]

I don't think it could have worked any other way. It just feels right to me. That particular point in his life seems to be his purgatory. At least he has a chance to make things right.

[JohnDalglish]

Hi,

After spending almost thirty years reading DT the first time, when I got to the ending I had an attack of hysterical laughing (not because it was funny) that lasted about half an hour, my son thought I was ill.

I agree, it was the perfect 'ending' (?) for what I consider the greatest work in world literature.

ROFL at your 'Starbucks', Pat!

Long days and pleasant nights

[Prince of Darkness]

Hi,

I, personally, loved it. It just wouldn't have done us any justice if Roland Deschain opened the door, only to discover he was a reincarnation of Arthur Eld and now All-World is returned to its former majesty, and yadda-yadda... all that happy mumbo-jumbo.

Roland being punished like that, but with the promise of better things to come, left me happier than any "happy ending" could have.

Also, seeing Patrick Danville there at the end was the cherry on the cake! :laugh:

Long days and pleasant nights

[rose key]

I loved it. I was shocked, but in a good way. I must admit at first I was thinking "Oh, my God-NO!!! No WAY!!" :biggrin2: Then, after a few minutes of letting it sink in, I knew it was the perfect ending. The only ending. Then I wanted to pick up the first book and start reading it again!

[wisewitch]

Ka is a wheel... :wink2:

When Roland entered The tower and started seeing his life from the moment he was born, I thought he will die when he reach the top... :sad:
Mr. King did a great thing with ending - he didn't ended it at all and I really like it! :smile2:

My English is quite bad, so I couldn't exactly express my thoughts, but the conclusion is: THE ENDING IS BRILLIANT! :y: :smile2:

[Cerralin]

There are hundreds (maybe an slight exaggeration) of threads about the Dark Tower and its ending. Maybe we could turn this thread in to alternate endings for this book (if that's OK with Sai King?)

I liked Patricia's ending or maybe it could go....

...Roland opened the door at the top of the Dark Tower....

The lights flashed on and there was a loud shout "Surprise!" and a rousing chorus of Happy Birthday. Roland had forgotten it was his Birthday....

But in the vein of the original thread, at first I hated the ending, I felt a little cheated. I so wanted them all to reach the tower and for Roland's journey to be over. Now I have thought about it and read all the threads there are on the DT I totally understand the ending and I am so glad I read the books =)

[JohnDalglish]

Hi,

Pee Ess - why is there not an option for 'loved it'?

Long days and pleasant nights

[Patricia A]

There are hundreds (maybe an slight exaggeration) of threads about the Dark Tower and its ending. Maybe we could turn this thread in to alternate endings for this book (if that's OK with Sai King?)

I liked Patricia's ending or maybe it could go....

...Roland opened the door at the top of the Dark Tower....

The lights flashed on and there was a loud shout "Surprise!" and a rousing chorus of Happy Birthday. Roland had forgotten it was his Birthday....

But in the vein of the original thread, at first I hated the ending, I felt a little cheated. I so wanted them all to reach the tower and for Roland's journey to be over. Now I have thought about it and read all the threads there are on the DT I totally understand the ending and I am so glad I read the books =)

You know that was my original thought when I started out. It just kinda turned into a poll instead of a 'how would you have ended the story' thing.

LMAO at the birthday party thing. Now how mad would you have been if that's how it really ended? OMG could you imagine the angry letters Ms Mod would have had to wade through? :laugh:

[Patricia A]

Hi,

Pee Ess - why is there not an option for 'loved it'?

Long days and pleasant nights

I was trying to keep it emotionally neutral. :biggrin2:

[Bryan James]

I may have read it wrong, but a recent article in the May/June 'Writer's Digest' quoted King as saying (when asked about the DT Series): "I don't feel done with it yet. Those seven books feel like the rough draft of one unified novel...sometimes you look back at a completed work and say 'Oh yeah! Now I know what I meant.'" P.53

Number Eight wouldn't surprise me a bit, but I will admit that I'm crossing my fingers.

BJS

[Mary Strickland]

If the Dark Tower ending had been any other way, it would seem like a cliff-hanger. As it is, we might meet up with Roland again someday.

[GBPack1]

If the Dark Tower ending had been any other way, it would seem like a cliff-hanger. As it is, we might meet up with Roland again someday.

I hope to see that day

[MyJadedEpiphany]

After reading many of the posts from people hating the ending I am surprised that some readers expected anything else! Not that I had any idea what was going to happen...but it was classic King all the way!! You feel sad for Roland for having a to relive his life again and again but rejoice in the idea that you haven't lost the character. SK has always had a way of connecting you with the characters you read about so that you feel like you KNOW them...like they are a part of your entourage. This was no exception!!

[debjm]

The ending was inevitable. Ka. I've just finished rereading the entire series for the second time -- spent my whole summer submerged in Roland's world. Wherever he is, clocking along on his endless loop, I wish him well. Say thankya...and may sai King see fit to finish the gunslinger's tale.

[michal]

I couldn't agree more Patricia. To me, like it or not, that was the only possible ending, the only conclusion to the journey and a very "Kingish" conclusion at that.

[crimnpsych]

...Roland opened the door at the top of the Dark Tower....

The lights flashed on and there was a loud shout "Surprise!" and a rousing chorus of Happy Birthday. Roland had forgotten it was his Birthday....



Literally laughed out loud at work when I read this. :biggrin2:

All I could imagine was everyone gathered around a big table with a Hannah Montana themed everything, and then someone (Walter maybe) puts a pointy, pink Hannah Montana hat on Roland...

So easily amused am I. LoL

[WritersRequiem]

[B]It is important to remember one thing about the ending of the "Dark Tower" series, and that is that things aren't all the same. For instance, Roland has the Horn of Eld, which he claimed when Cuthbert died (in the series, he left it behind). It also appears that he never had to fight Cort, since, when the voices are speaking in Roland's head, he wonders why one voice would suggest Cort is afraid of him ("...a kid...."). Perhaps Cort might be a potential ally in Roland's next run at the Dark Tower, and the Horn of Eld can be utilized to call his friends and therefore aid his journey.

Whatever the case, the story of "The Dark Tower" is not so much a perfect cycle as a cycle on an ever-so-slightly-tilted axis. If Stephen King does decide to expand on his story with another novel, I imagine it will follow this ideal and show how the odds have tilted (pun intended--cheap, I know; pardon) in his favor. Of course, it's always possible that claiming the Horn of Eld and not having to face Cort will actually hamper Roland's progression. I think the countless possibilities are what make the ending to TDT as necessary as Mr. King deems it to be--they leave the door open for anything and everything to be different, with no guarantee that Roland will have it any easier his next time around.[B]

[THISisWHEREiMAKEmySTAND]

I agree with many previous posters...It couldn't have been any thing else on the top floor. I mean, here we find the culmination of the 'wheel' (ka) we had been riding for well over ten thousand pages... We end where we began, which was an important theme throughout the DT. I also loved the surprise, I don't know about anyone else, but over the course of the books I had a pretty developed notion of what [B]I[B] thought was going to be at the top, and in one fell swoop Sai King shattered all the preconceived notions I had held up until that point, which is part of why he is so utterly brilliant. If he can still pull the rug out from under us after thousands of hours and thousands of pages, then he is truly great, not only as an author but as a story teller which is part of the magic of this series; first we are reading a novel then next thing we know we have joined a Ka-tet, and we are there for every campfire, cold night, and firefight. We are no longer digesting some edited, or regurgitated version of a tale that has been told a thousand times and a thousand ways-- what we get in DT is an epic tale that is incredibly reminiscent of the oral traditions of our past. The way I see it is that if people are unsatisfied with the end of this tale, they will be unsatisfied by life- shouldn’t we have already learned from Roland’s tale that closure is not something you often come by in reality, or in mid-world.

[SuzannaDean]

:eek2:Hmm, I wasn't a fan of the ending. It felt like a big let down as after all 7 books making a big deal of this DT, for nothing substantial to really happen was a bit bad really. Although I kinda like the fact that it allows you to interpret what happens after going through the door however you want to. But could have been so much better!

[sam peebles]

[B]It is important to remember one thing about the ending of the "Dark Tower" series, and that is that things aren't all the same. For instance, Roland has the Horn of Eld, which he claimed when Cuthbert died (in the series, he left it behind). It also appears that he never had to fight Cort, since, when the voices are speaking in Roland's head, he wonders why one voice would suggest Cort is afraid of him ("...a kid...."). Perhaps Cort might be a potential ally in Roland's next run at the Dark Tower, and the Horn of Eld can be utilized to call his friends and therefore aid his journey.[B]

In my view, Cort was ALWAYS an ally in Roland's journey to the Dark Tower. And Roland will ALWAYS have to fight Cort, regardless how old he is when he does it, or else he will never become a true gunslinger.

[catnoel]

Man, I just hope that crap just doens't happen in real life!!! Just that one second of OH NO I gotta do this again!!! AWWW HELL NO would be enough for me:wow:

[Will Hunter]

I think it might well have been better to simply leave it up to the reader's imagination what happens when Roland enters the Tower; the novels are about the journey more than the destination, and there's no way that anybody, even King, could describe the Tower fully enough to do it justice.

But having gone with the choice to show Roland entering the Tower, I think that the ending was about as good as it could have been.
I don't love it, but I don't dislike it either.

[Robert Gray]

We were all given the option of leaving it to our imagination. Sai King suggests it all the while knowing that we, like Roland, would have to see it through to the end. The ending was exactly what I expected. I knew what awaited Roland in the Tower perhaps two books back. I think the ending was exactly as it should have been. Consider the following:

1. As Roland is sent back to start over from a certain point, he is told to "stand and be true."

2. He is allowed to take the horn from fallen Cuthbert as a token of the promise that things can be different.

3. Consider the point in time where he replaced on the journey, not far before the only time he fails to "be true." I refer of course to his betrayal of Jake.

4. Consider that when the paradox is created by Jake's life being saved prior to his death that would have pushed him into Roland's world in the first place, Roland still ends up with Eddie and Susannah by his side. This indicates that Jake's sacrifice was probably not necessary to catch the man in black or generate the doors.

What this indicates, to me at least, is that it was that crucial moment when Roland failed to be true when he damned himself to another journey. He knew there was no redemption for what he himself. Roland doesn't live the same life each time (like some repeat of the movie Groundhog Day). Each time he goes around again he likely touches different lives. He has the promise that things may be different. There is the hope that he will one day end his travels.

[costanza]

I've never been able to figure out how Roland is supposed to save Jake.

They meet at the way station. Which is near the end of the apotheosis of all deserts. He's got no water skins left, he's drank and dropped them all in the desert. They have to move forward, towards the mountains.

Is there a way around/through/over the mountains that they don't take, in favor of through the tunnel? I guess that would be the only way because going through eventually leads to the bridge. Jake slips, hangs off the edge, and when Roland jumps off the bridge onto the mountain ledge the bridge falls, as does Jake.

So it's not like Roland can reach down and grab the kid and pull him up. The effort that would take would bring it down too. That part had me thinking for awhile. Why doesn't Roland just reach down and pull him up and then see Walter? He says he'll leave if Roland doesn't follow right now but I never thought the 100 extra yards he would get while Roland saves Jake would make that much of a difference. lol. But then again, this is Walter and he can disappear and reappear where ever he wants to, The Stand.

Which also irks me about DT7. Why doesn't he bug out in the second that Mordred, who incidentally was made in between the way station and the mountains, changes into spider form? I'm hoping that maybe he did. Maybe he was able to escape.

Maybe he'll be back in Talisman 3. lol


Ramble on

[wally wonder]

3. Consider the point in time where he replaced on the journey, not far before the only time he fails to "be true." I refer of course to his betrayal of Jake.


What this indicates, to me at least, is that it was that crucial moment when Roland failed to be true when he damned himself to another journey. He knew there was no redemption for what he himself. Roland doesn't live the same life each time (like some repeat of the movie Groundhog Day). Each time he goes around again he likely touches different lives. He has the promise that things may be different. There is the hope that he will one day end his travels.

i've gone round and round on point three. and when i next read the story(ies) i might have a different opinion. but, "the only time"? consider cuthbert's attitude toward roland in the waste lands. don't recall the exact phrase, something about doing the right thing for the wrong reasons...doing the wrong thing for the right reasons...? something like at.

anyway, i think he failed in his doings with susan. maybe this is one of those moral ambiguities that doesn't bother others. other than being troubled with what happens to susan, few seem to find any problem w/how the two of them acted. she had given her word to the mayor and she broke it. some of the parallels between susan/roland, martin/roland's mother, are there in the story. susan, at the window. gabriel (?) at the window.

but then, yeah, okay, "consider the point in time where he replaced on the journey" and considering that, is that only because it echoes the first line of the story, or is it because, like you said, 'the only time' he failed to be true was when he stepped over jake.

i've had others get bent out of shape when i've suggested the above, about roland/susan, martin/his mother, and i don't mean to throw anyone off their feed--but they loved each other!--is usually used to excuse what happened. thing is, susan's fate isn't much different than what happened to jake, no? i'm not suggesting they didn't love each other. they could have been more open about it and susan could have told the mayor to take a flying leap.

that didn't happen. and there's no second time around cause the man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed. seems to me it is an eternal curse. so, why that point in the story?

[Robert Gray]

You are missing the point. Roland's failure to save Susan wasn't a conscious choice. He had no intention of sacrificing her. It was simply a failure of judgement and bad luck. In the case of Jake's death (first death) the Gunslinger made an intellectual choice to sacrifice the boy to achieve the goal knowing full well what he was doing and the outcome. He cast aside everything he knew was right and even thought about what would happen (in that split second) if he did stand and be true. There is no shame or damnation in failure as long as one "stands" which is a point Sai King makes in several books, not the least of which is "The Stand" itself.

[lquilla]

I too felt a little cheated at first, but after thinking about it I decided it follows the wheel. I loved the series, but was sad for it to end.

[sai slone]

I laughed at the end, one of those why didn't you see that comming kind of laughs. after all didn't SK tell us throughout the whole series,"KA IS A WHEEL"?

[JohnDalglish]

I too felt a little cheated at first, but after thinking about it I decided it follows the wheel. I loved the series, but was sad for it to end.

Hi,

But does it end?

More than any other work in literature DT benefits from multiple re-reads, you'll see something new every time IMO.

Long days and pleasant nights

[wally wonder]

You are missing the point. Roland's failure to save Susan wasn't a conscious choice. He had no intention of sacrificing her. It was simply a failure of judgement and bad luck. In the case of Jake's death (first death) the Gunslinger made an intellectual choice to sacrifice the boy to achieve the goal knowing full well what he was doing and the outcome. He cast aside everything he knew was right and even thought about what would happen (in that split second) if he did stand and be true. There is no shame or damnation in failure as long as one "stands" which is a point Sai King makes in several books, not the least of which is "The Stand" itself.


you are missing my point. roland and susan hiding their love was a conscious choice. by hiding their love, susan was sacrificed to roland's goal. and it is ironic because of how he viewed the relationship between martin and his mother. roland's old man knew "for two years" but that knowledge wasted roland, changed him to the point where that is where he should have been recycled. but he wasn't. he was returned to the desert. so maybe i'm wrong and the next reread will change my mind. but thanks for the reply. nobody has expressed the argument, as you have, and that should help my next take on the tower.

[Robert Gray]

You are comparing apples an oranges. Your point is irrelevant. Young Roland and Susan aren't doing anything "untrue" in being in love, nor in hiding it. Roland isn't choosing to sacrifice Susan. You seem unable to discern the difference between right and wrong on the scale of morals and morays versus good and evil. It would be impossible for me to teach you the difference. It also isn't my place. It suffices to say that "standing and being true" isn't about being a Boy Scout. There is however, a big difference between the mistakes and choosing to sell one's soul. We need look no further than the Gunslinger himself to know the only important right from wrong. He says it to himself time and time again, throughout all of the books.

[wally wonder]

You are comparing apples an oranges. Your point is irrelevant. Young Roland and Susan aren't doing anything "untrue" in being in love, nor in hiding it.

how so?...the comparing part of your post? how does what young roland and susan do differ from what martin and gabriel do?

[Robert Gray]

If you can't see the difference then you are incapable of telling the difference whether I point it out or not.

[JohnDalglish]

how so?...the comparing part of your post? how does what young roland and susan do differ from what martin and gabriel do?

Hi,

One is love and the other is lust.

I think many people's problems stem from being unable to distinguish the fundamental difference between the two.

Long days and pleasant nights

[wally wonder]

If you can't see the difference then you are incapable of telling the difference whether I point it out or not.

no, i asked what you meant, apples oranges, thinking that, one, you might be referring to jake/susan, discussed moments earlier, or that, two, you might be referring to susan/gabrielle. i simply asked for clarification.

that said, and at the risk of scarlett hurling a vase across the room (saw a pink and gray car today, an oldie, parked by itself, nice colors), consider this: why are we told "they were doomed" after roland and susan consummated their love on the drop?

i think roland is to blame for susan's death, even more so than for stepping over jake. when the coffin hunters jug roland and the boys, when jonas had 'two-pounds of pull on a three-pound trigger", lordy, pointing that gun at roland, "susan was absent from his mind." he's feeling shame at being caught.

shame, the reason i mention it is because there is one thing puzzling about the whole affair: coral thorin reminds him of his mother. (this at the banquet) coral's expression is the same as that of his mother (at the window)..."maybe that [he'd] understand and forgive."

there's a time, on the drop, as susan's and roland's passion grows and after roland realized that susan had as much passion as he did, he realized that she was "no longer her own mistress; she might consequently be his. he could do to her what marten had done to his own mother, if that was his fancy."

yeah, okay, love/lust. i can buy that. what confuses that issue is the twinning of coral thorin and gabrielle. if marten was acting on gabrielle, and if roland begins to realize, in a way, that gabrielle played her part...no, wait now...i don't think roland knows that yet...he is comparing gabrielle to thorin and he doesn't seem to have accepted the idea that gabrielle tooted on the flute

apples? oranges? in gone with the wind, during a 1940 reading and up to the late 50s perhaps, most of the gals in the class wanted to be melanie. today, if asked, if the story is even read, most gals want to fill scarlett's shoes, her of the flinging vase (cybola my life for you)

.

but is it, apples? oranges? duck! and cover!. dunno what it has to say for reading, or the subject of "art". but suppose the question was asked in the 40s...was it fitting and proper for roland and susan to hide their love, to even pursue it in the first place? wasn't that a bit like marten and gabrielle? and isn't roland to blame, then, seeing how he seems to see himself as actor, acting upon, rather like he still sees marten and gabrielle, marten, acting upon gabrielle. he seems unable to believe, or want to believe, that "such evils of the heart seemed necessary"?

gabrielle is married, some will say, susan is not yet. still, she made some sort of commitment. do we incorporate our morals into the story? or do we accept the morals implied in the story? did susan and roland do something that would have been received badly (seems it was, no?) in their time?
or does it have to do with the gone with the wind analogy...in the 40s, the young ladies who read the story wanted to be melanie, today, they want to be scarlett?:oo:

[Robert Gray]

Like I said before, we have no common frame of reference to discuss this with each other further. If I thought there was anything I could say which would clarify it to you I would do so. There isn't, so we will have to agree to disagree.

[Kacee]

It just wouldn't have done us any justice if Roland Deschain opened the door, only to discover he was a reincarnation of Arthur Eld

I almost expected Jake to reach the Tower and go to the top, with Roland or without, only to learn that he (Jake) is Arthur Eld, King Arthur, the Boy King, the true origin of the Gunslingers that will be. Mayhap King Arthur was as strong as Jake in the touch, to be able to free Excalibur from the stone.

Who knows... maybe that's to be determined later. Does it not make sense, though? :eyebrow:

[costanza]

Arthur gets Excalibur from the Lady in the Lake.

Disney decided to put it in the stone.

[CaseyM]

I really liked the ending. I think, like others have mentioned, that it is the only ending that really makes sense to me. Sure others would have worked, but this one seems to fit. I also keep thinking that maybe Roland hasn't done something 'right' this time around, and must to back to do it over again - hopefully in the 'right order' if you will. It just seems to me that Roland must have missed something, or not done it correctly, and once he does he'll find whatever he is looking for at the top of the tower. Until then he will be doomed to repeat himself.

[OhhDiscordia]

Robert Gray, I get what you're saying here. It's a shame Bluey Lunger doesn't seem to understand. There is, nicely put, no relevance whatsoever in that of the two relationships. My friend who put me onto this series always refers to Roland as the bad guy. While I don't entirely agree with that statement, he is an anti-hero yes but certainly he isn't a bad guy, his whole meaning for saying it is based on the fact that, he let Jake fall. Put yourself in Roland's situation for a minute. You just DON'T let a kid fall to his death when you can save him, no matter what. It's just that simple.

After looking back now to that incident, that is the turning point of the story without a doubt. As far as the ending is concerned of course. There is no reason to believe that he wouldn't have found the DT if he has not caught and palavered with the man in black. However, how Walter is able to know Roland's future? That one had me going for a while. The whole ending to that is just crucial and I'm going to go back and read it before I read anything else. I'd like to hear Mr Gray's thoughts on this last paragraph.

That said, Roland letting Jake die condemns him to what he finds at the top of the tower. He made a promise to himself that he would find it and open the door to the room at the top? That is his only reason for questing for the tower in his eyes. Of course this ending had to come, but seeing as how Jake, Eddie, Susannah, and Oy re-opened his heart, if you will, taught him how to love again, then I think Ka/Gan must realize this change in him and give him the promise of a different way. I love this, "This is your promise that things may be different, Roland - that there may yet be rest. Even salvation... Think of how exhausted this man truly must be now that you know what has been going on. Were he to continue his quest again, and stand true, mayhap he only needs to save the beams/sai king and have no need to enter the tower. Still, the mystery of what one gains if standing true is quite thought provoking.

[thymeoperator]

even though the ending is horrible for roland, i thought there was an irony in there because as a reader i quite envied roland! he's able to do something we can never do: forget the ending of the story. the book leaves off as us able to read the whole series over and over and over again in a loop, like he's been doing, but for him it's always a surprise waiting for him at the end, whereas for us we have to savour that first shock all we can because it will never come again. i really liked that.

[OhhDiscordia]

I wish I could say true operator, while I do like the ending, I will struggle with reading it a second time, wishing that I were reading it as the story leaves off, him having the horn and seeing how it would unfold. Well, I won't necessarily struggle but I think you get what I mean.

How do you think the struggle for saving the Beam is reset? Or is it? I can't quite figure out if when he walks through the door, if time is rewound. Seems like it obviously is yet I feel some sort of paradox setting in with myself. Over-analyzing probably. Just seems illogical to me that Gan would put itself in such danger over and over again. When you think about it, the entire multiverse is on the verge of being destroyed. The tower is under threat of toppling, and yet over and over again it puts itself there. This is of course, assuming time is NOT just going back and Roland is starting over in some alternate reality, universe, WHEN, etc. I'm driving myself mad.

[wally wonder]

Robert Gray, I get what you're saying here. It's a shame Bluey Lunger doesn't seem to understand. There is, nicely put, no relevance whatsoever in that of the two relationships. My friend who put me onto this series always refers to Roland as the bad guy.

bluey tried to have a conversation about this, but was shot down. bluey does see a kind of relevance in the two relationships. gabrielle and marten's relationship, "i knew for two years", wasn't developed as was roland's and susan's relationship, but even roland considered his mother's and marten's doings as he was getting to kow susan. to say it has no relevance is to ignore a significant aspect of the story. i didn't put that significance there. sk did.

the truth is in the details. i wanted to discuss it, was shot down, case over, bar the door. :y:

[wally wonder]

i wanted to suggest a reading of joe hill's heart-shaped box. there's some to-do there about a horn, or some sort of musical instrument, as well as all those nods to the old man's work...i'm not thinking about it, come winter, i'll take that path again, and enjoy every minute of it, as i have the previous four or five times i've journeyed there. so i come away w/an opinion contrary to the accepted. so shoot me. i'll even stand still, blindfold me even. you betcha! i only want a last supper. i want dead puppies, on the half-shell.

[KellyM]

I agree with "rose key". I was a bit shocked when I read it the first time but after re-reading the final three books again, I feel like there is no other way it could have ended. Best series of books I have read in my life (equal to "The Lord of the Rings").

[TPG555]

I just finished it two days and I loved it. It was the best part of the entire 7th book. I feel like I need to read it again because the journey has restarted.

[DancingCorpse]

I think the only thing i can say about the ending of the DT series is that it makes sense when you think about everything that goes on in the story, it just makes sense to me. At first i was like WTF now that is a mind screwer. But, it really does make sense. Ka is a wheel as they say. I would hope that somewhere along the line Roland gets his peace, but until he learns his lessons, then he will go on.

[FakeJake93]

The ending was quite a twist. I started the series this passed December, so I guess I can't be as good of a judge on the ending as a fan who has been reading since the 80s... I'm guessing that your expectations would be very high at that point.

The time loop was a plot twist, but it also left it open for another novel. I don't think another novel is necessary, but it's still a possibility. The Wind Through The Keyhole could be a tale about a different reincarnation of Roland; the final one.

My one thing with the ending was as to why Roland was being punished. The two turning points in which Roland chose to sacrifice things were Jake back at the caves, and Susan in Mejis. He chose the tower over these two individuals on two separate occasions, but the reincarnations don't give him a second chance at Susan. It only gives him a second chance at Jake..., but later on in the series, he already does get a second chance at Jake, so why send him back in time?

The whole reason that the Tower sent him back was to redeem himself; to hopefully choose a different path and give up the Tower for his redemption. He already did though, in a sense. In the final installment, every character that dies is taken away from him; he does not sacrifice any of them at all. Also, Roland promises himself in his head just before Jake is run over that it would be him who died this time, not Jake. Doesn't this prove that he has already opened up his heart and has priorities that outmatch reaching the tower at this point in the series? Why would the wheel of ka pull Roland's ka-tet away from him after he had grown to love them more than the tower, only to send him back in time so that he would choose a different life over the tower when he already had?

It seems to me that Roland already had his redemption. The Tower took Eddie, Susannah, Jake, and Oy away from him and drew Roland closer; Roland had nothing to do with their deaths.

[Robert Gray]

My one thing with the ending was as to why Roland was being punished. The two turning points in which Roland chose to sacrifice things were Jake back at the caves, and Susan in Mejis. He chose the tower over these two individuals on two separate occasions, but the reincarnations don't give him a second chance at Susan. It only gives him a second chance at Jake..., but later on in the series, he already does get a second chance at Jake, so why send him back in time?

Roland didn't sacrifice Susan. He did not make a choice knowing she would be doomed. He believed her safe and sound, having taken several measures to ensure she was out of harm's way. He chose to sacrifice Jake, however, and that is why he was repeating that trip. It doesn't matter that fate allowed him to reconcile with himself over the betrayal (and with Jake). At that moment he did not stand and be true. The Tower is not sending Roland back to redeem himself. You are putting too much weight on Roland. Roland is a man of destiny to serve Gan's will and until he gets it right, the cycle will repeat.

[costanza]

The Wind Through The Keyhole could be a tale about a different reincarnation of Roland; the final one.


I was hoping so too but it looks like it involves Roland and Cuthbert tracking down a Werewolf. From the front page of the main website:

not directly about Roland Deschain, but yes, he and his friend Cuthbert are in it, hunting a skin-man, which are what werewolves are called in that lost kingdom


Skin-man reminds me of Blade Runner. lol

[LadyHitchhiker]

I absolutely hated and detested and felt betrayed when I read the last page of the book.

But now I've come to terms with it and it's grown on me ;)

[boogerb53]

There was no other possible ending. The book wrote itself, ka is a wheel. yada, yada, yada......It is what it is.....the Alpha and the Omega.

[FakeJake93]

Roland didn't sacrifice Susan. He did not make a choice knowing she would be doomed. He believed her safe and sound, having taken several measures to ensure she was out of harm's way. He chose to sacrifice Jake, however, and that is why he was repeating that trip. It doesn't matter that fate allowed him to reconcile with himself over the betrayal (and with Jake). At that moment he did not stand and be true. The Tower is not sending Roland back to redeem himself. You are putting too much weight on Roland. Roland is a man of destiny to serve Gan's will and until he gets it right, the cycle will repeat.

Well, he chose leaving for the tower over living a peaceful life with Susan, inevitably leading to her death.

So the Dark Tower is sending Roland back in time over and over again to get that one moment right? If what you say is true, than the weight is on Roland's shoulders to follow out Gan's will. What I am trying to get at is that it required him letting Jake fall down the cliff in order for him to learn to love Jake unconditionally later on. Without that mistake to learn from, how can he possibly change his ways when his memories are erased?

One could argue that human nature or the horn would cause him to do it differently, but isn't accepting Jake's love later on enough? Why that one crucial moment?


I was hoping so too but it looks like it involves Roland and Cuthbert tracking down a Werewolf. From the front page of the main website:

not directly about Roland Deschain, but yes, he and his friend Cuthbert are in it, hunting a skin-man, which are what werewolves are called in that lost kingdom

How could that take place in between Wizard and Glass and Wolves of the Calla, though? Perhaps The Wind Through the Keyhole and this are two separate books, since Cuthburt was long dead before the Gunslinger.

[Robert Gray]

Well, he chose leaving for the tower over living a peaceful life with Susan, inevitably leading to her death.

No. The Tower wasn't even on Roland's radar when he knew Susan. What books did you read? Susan was dead in the fire long before Roland ever began his quest for the Tower.


So the Dark Tower is sending Roland back in time over and over again to get that one moment right? If what you say is true, than the weight is on Roland's shoulders to follow out Gan's will. What I am trying to get at is that it required him letting Jake fall down the cliff in order for him to learn to love Jake unconditionally later on. Without that mistake to learn from, how can he possibly change his ways when his memories are erased?

No. It didn't require that at all. He loved Jake even before he let him fall and hence the damnation. Roland judges himself. He knew it was the wrong thing even as he did it, after the fact, and forward in time. Whether or not Roland always goes back to that same moment is not something we can prove one way or the other. I can't speculate on stories not yet written, only on what was clear in the text. As to learning from mistakes, that is irrelevant. Roland didn't need to learn it was wrong. He knew before he did it.


One could argue that human nature or the horn would cause him to do it differently, but isn't accepting Jake's love later on enough? Why that one crucial moment?

That is a question best put to Gan and not me. The next best person to ask is Roland himself. Even later when Jake is rescued, Roland still knows he is damned. He has no illusions. Perhaps Gan doesn't judge Roland any harsher than Roland does himself.

[FakeJake93]

No. The Tower wasn't even on Roland's radar when he knew Susan. What books did you read? Susan was dead in the fire long before Roland ever began his quest for the Tower.

There was something in the text that something along the lines of: "And then Roland has his choice, a nice quiet life with Susan or his path as a gunslinger". Whether it was the Dark Tower or not, he had some sort o decision.


No. It didn't require that at all. He loved Jake even before he let him fall and hence the damnation. Roland judges himself. He knew it was the wrong thing even as he did it, after the fact, and forward in time. Whether or not Roland always goes back to that same moment is not something we can prove one way or the other. I can't speculate on stories not yet written, only on what was clear in the text. As to learning from mistakes, that is irrelevant. Roland didn't need to learn it was wrong. He knew before he did it.

So, if Roland knew it was wrong, and doesn't need to learn from his mistakes... why does the Tower send him back? I speculated that it was sending him back to achieve his salvation through learning from mistakes and doing things differently since he now had the horn. Granted his memory is erased when he goes back, but what other point to it could there be? (unless Gan is just having fun messing with Roland, laughing at him everytime he gets to the top and putting his reaction on OlympusTube)


That is a question best put to Gan and not me. The next best person to ask is Roland himself. Even later when Jake is rescued, Roland still knows he is damned. He has no illusions. Perhaps Gan doesn't judge Roland any harsher than Roland does himself.

Obviously Gan knows what is going on, if not Roland, but that was the point of ending the series as he did, was it not? To drive speculation, talk, and theories over his books even years after they have been finished? We can never know for sure what the tower (Gan; ka) truely intends by sending Roland back in time; we can only discuss and come up with our own theories.

[SleepingWarrior]

There was something in the text that something along the lines of: "And then Roland has his choice, a nice quiet life with Susan or his path as a gunslinger". Whether it was the Dark Tower or not, he had some sort o decision.


You're correct. Roland goes into the ball before ambushing Farson's men and sees the Tower for the first time and sees Susan captured but about to be released by Olive Thorin. He believes her to be safe. He always says "Inside the ball I was given a choice: Susan, and my life as her husband and father of the child she carries... or the Tower." Goes on to also say he'd choose Susan in an instant if not for the Tower crumbling.

[Robert Gray]

There was something in the text that something along the lines of: "And then Roland has his choice, a nice quiet life with Susan or his path as a gunslinger". Whether it was the Dark Tower or not, he had some sort o decision.

You should reread the story of Susan Delgado. I believe you are confusing things as there are many books. Roland's choices involving Susan were always in mind with her protection, even as he tried to do his duty. His failure to protect Susan wasn't due to him choosing to sacrifice her or even a lapse in his judgement. Sometimes you can make all the right choices and things still go wrong. That is what happened in the case of Susan Delgado.


So, if Roland knew it was wrong, and doesn't need to learn from his mistakes... why does the Tower send him back?

Why indeed? That is the fundamental question, but also the question which we are unlikely to know the answer to. Perhaps Sai King knows, but I would be surprised if even he knows fully. Consider the following:

*Who says the Tower sends him back at all? We all assume that. How do we know it isn't Roland himself. Let's face it, he is a masochist. It is possible with his indomitable will and reluctance to ever be a peace that it is Roland himself who sends himself back. The Tower and its gift of the horn could be a promise that things might be different. I'm not saying this is the answer. I'm saying it is just as possible as the the one most assume.


I speculated that it was sending him back to achieve his salvation through learning from mistakes and doing things differently since he now had the horn. Granted his memory is erased when he goes back, but what other point to it could there be? (unless Gan is just having fun messing with Roland, laughing at him everytime he gets to the top and putting his reaction on OlympusTube)

I think it is clear that Gan isn't laughing, but I think it is unclear whether or not Gan is sending Roland back at all, much less for the specific purpose of Roland's salvation. Our salvation is always in our own hands. If Gan was truly sending Roland back over and over again until he got it right, "salvation" would be a moot point. It would be a given, a fixed game. That may or may not be true, but I think there is more at work than merely a "Ground Hog Day" scenario.


Obviously Gan knows what is going on, if not Roland, but that was the point of ending the series as he did, was it not? To drive speculation, talk, and theories over his books even years after they have been finished? We can never know for sure what the tower (Gan; ka) truely intends by sending Roland back in time; we can only discuss and come up with our own theories.

Who says you are entitled to know? Gan/God works in mysterious ways. Some questions were never supposed to be answered. The question itself is the point. Some people think it will all repeat again involving the same people. I do not. I think Roland's quest will repeat in a manner fo speaking but the people he draws (if any) will be different people. The worlds he will walk will be other worlds. The foes he fights may even be different foes. His purpose in Gan's scheme (or his own) may simply be the eternal gunslinger who must push a rolling stone up a mountain. Roland's duties may not be for his own good or ill one way or the other but merely pre-ordained by the need of reality (or all realities). We can play the theory game forever but ultimately those things don't matter. They don't even interest me. I only care about the story at hand.

[FakeJake93]

You should reread the story of Susan Delgado. I believe you are confusing things as there are many books. Roland's choices involving Susan were always in mind with her protection, even as he tried to do his duty. His failure to protect Susan wasn't due to him choosing to sacrifice her or even a lapse in his judgement. Sometimes you can make all the right choices and things still go wrong. That is what happened in the case of Susan Delgado.

I know he didn't "sacrifice" her, but in his head, as stated by SleepingWarrior, he made the mental decision to give up his life for the Dark Tower instead of staying with Susan in Mejis. Though this didn't kill her, in a sense, it was a sacrifice, even if the stakes were not her life.



Why indeed? That is the fundamental question, but also the question which we are unlikely to know the answer to. Perhaps Sai King knows, but I would be surprised if even he knows fully. Consider the following:

*Who says the Tower sends him back at all? We all assume that. How do we know it isn't Roland himself. Let's face it, he is a masochist. It is possible with his indomitable will and reluctance to ever be a peace that it is Roland himself who sends himself back. The Tower and its gift of the horn could be a promise that things might be different. I'm not saying this is the answer. I'm saying it is just as possible as the the one most assume.

Interesting theory; that seems to make more sense... the text leads away from this belief is when it says "They were the hands of Gan, the hands of ka, and they knew no mercy." But I guess, technically, the hands could be helping Roland send himself back (if he is being sent back. My theory had always been that it was his own private hell, reliving the same experience within himself). And the tower does seem to symbolize his endless quest. All of the rooms surround the steps to the tower, symbolizing how ever aspect of his life has branched off of and surrounded this quest, the staircase. But still, when Roland thinks: "To hell with the tower" in book 7.... it just makes you wonder why Roland would choose to send himself back, even at a subconscious level.




I think it is clear that Gan isn't laughing, but I think it is unclear whether or not Gan is sending Roland back at all, much less for the specific purpose of Roland's salvation. Our salvation is always in our own hands. If Gan was truly sending Roland back over and over again until he got it right, "salvation" would be a moot point. It would be a given, a fixed game. That may or may not be true

It might not necessarily be a moot point; he could never get his salvation and just stay on the loop for eternity.


I think there is more at work than merely a "Ground Hog Day" scenario.

That... or it's a pot-boiler. I certainly hope not, though. Whether there was an intended theme or not, you can at least make one up for yourself if there isn't one.




Who says you are entitled to know? Gan/God works in mysterious ways. Some questions were never supposed to be answered. The question itself is the point. Some people think it will all repeat again involving the same people. I do not. I think Roland's quest will repeat in a manner fo speaking but the people he draws (if any) will be different people. The worlds he will walk will be other worlds. The foes he fights may even be different foes. His purpose in Gan's scheme (or his own) may simply be the eternal gunslinger who must push a rolling stone up a mountain. Roland's duties may not be for his own good or ill one way or the other but merely pre-ordained by the need of reality (or all realities). We can play the theory game forever but ultimately those things don't matter. They don't even interest me. I only care about the story at hand.

As I stated in my post, the reason he ended it like that was drived to have speculation continue even after it was written. I never said I thought I was entitled to know.

But yes, in theory, we could play the theory game forever.[/irony] The story will always be the best part of the Dark Tower, for without the story, there are no theories. It's just that not much discussion can be made over the story, seeing how what has been said has been said, and the only thing left to discuss on the story aspect of it is your own opinions.

[SleepingWarrior]

As for what Roland needs to enter and ascend the Tower safely I think it comes down to 3 things... The guns of the Eld, the horn and lastly but most importantly I think he needs Jake. Is Jake bound to Roland as a son in Ka's eyes and part of the perpetual quest for the Tower and final atonement that Roland is on? I tend to think yes but I may be wrong. In the end I think part of what is dooming Roland to his repetitious fate is having but one goal, that of saving the Tower. In his mind his only purpose in life is to keep the Tower from falling he thinks of nothing beyond the moment he opens the top room of the Tower thus dooming himself to repeat the task through eternity but if he has Jake when he enters the Tower he has something to live for after reaching the top of the Tower.

[Tiny]

I liked it. but also__I HAD NO IDEA!. It was a surprise to me. up untill i read it ...I had no clue what was "in there" for him. Some have told me they guessed it long before they read it (some were lying) I didnt guess at all. I loved it.I was floored.

[Wanderer From Ys]

I'm surprised to see that so many people didn't like the ending. It exceeded my expectations, and the made the entire story worthwhile. Really what other alternative could be at the top of tower that represented his life? At the end of his life was either going to be death, or a rebirth of sorts.

Ka just makes so much more sense as well. Why are things meant to happen a certain way? Because they already have. Things were meant to work in his favor because they have before, and they will again. He's already done it, and Rolands Gunslinger skill is his own curse. No one, whether human, or demon, or undead can match his skill, so he's doomed to immortality. As the saying goes curiousity killed the cat. Really after the breakers will stopped, there was no need to go to the tower. Although I hated Susannah for leaving Roland after all they had been through, she made the right decision, and she was rewarded by being reunited with her loved ones. Roland was just too obsessed with the tower, and he was punished.

[SleepingWarrior]

I'm surprised to see that so many people didn't like the ending. It exceeded my expectations, and the made the entire story worthwhile. Really what other alternative could be at the top of tower that represented his life? At the end of his life was either going to be death, or a rebirth of sorts.

Ka just makes so much more sense as well. Why are things meant to happen a certain way? Because they already have. Things were meant to work in his favor because they have before, and they will again. He's already done it, and Rolands Gunslinger skill is his own curse. No one, whether human, or demon, or undead can match his skill, so he's doomed to immortality. As the saying goes curiousity killed the cat. Really after the breakers will stopped, there was no need to go to the tower. Although I hated Susannah for leaving Roland after all they had been through, she made the right decision, and she was rewarded by being reunited with her loved ones. Roland was just too obsessed with the tower, and he was punished.

Very well put. Been trying to find a way to write it out as concisely as that.

Also goes in with my theory about what it takes to get to the Top without restarting the loop over again...

He needs both of his sandalwood revolvers, the Horn of the Eld AND he needs Jake to ascend with him. Jake (his son by Ka) would give Roland something to live for after securing the Tower. As it stands his life is the Tower so each time he gets to the top his purpose in life is gone so the Tower kicks him back to start it all over again.

Which is why I didn't enjoy the ending... it leaves me with too many questions unanswered and infinite scenarios going forward.

[DancingCorpse]

These two posts make a lot of sense to me, it's such a complex story!

[cloudsover31]

i think that it was the right way to end the book, i cant think of any other way it coulve ended. and i think, personally, that he should have gone through all of the doors of his life before reaching the top. maybe it wouldve turned out different...?

[Like_The_Wind]

I was pretty astonished at the ending of the Tower Series. I was confused and sad and definitely excited to tell anyone who listened!! I thought it was brilliant!! And also an ending of convenience ever since "The Artist" came into the novel. It seeemed like the seventh book went by really fast. All of the sudden The Man in Black is dead.. All of a sudden this guy Dandelo who was soooo important that eddie has to relay caution about him to Jake on his death bed, only for Jake to relay the same "Watch out for Dandelo" message to Oy on his death bed too.. but his coming and going was quick as a whip. They were supposed to watch out for this guy who they didn't even know but he was supposed to be such a terrible thing, then he's gone BANG just like that 2 shots and he's down. The same with Mordred. He was following his "co-mom" and "co-dad" for who knows how many miles.. all the way from Fedic. He's been bent on revenge since he basically popped out the womb! And look how he dies... Oy. Pretty much a miscalculation on Mordred's part. BANG 2 shots and he's down too. The long anticipation of Father vs Son.. Demon vs Gunslinger... Sorry folks, show's canceled, maybe next time. Personally, as upset as I have seen some people be about The Crimson King being "erased" instead of fought and defeated, really there was no other way. We already knew that the Crimson King killed himself first and therefore Roland's guns, or any other weapon for that matter, would render useless against him. So, really, what other way was there to kill the king? As far as the cleverly called "reset button" at the top of the tower goes... well, Stephen's been telling us the ending the whole time had we only paid attention...

"Ka is a wheel".

[SharonC]

I must have read and re-read that last page of Dark Tower VII dozens of times. At first I thought "What the?". But on reflection, as pointed out by so many others here, Ka is a wheel. I shoulda seen it coming. I don't think we've seen the last of Roland just yet.

[Morrison]

It's a gimmicky ending that we've seen many times in many stories. There are creative and original ways to end books. This was not one of them. However, this ending fit this story line well, so you have to at least commend king for taping things together right.

[marjorie]

Starbucks, lol, that's priceless!

[Like_The_Wind]

I must admit though, I'm confused as to why we would be told that there are 2 keystone worlds (Roland's and that of the world they met Sai Cullum) and within those worlds, time goes one way. No more chances to come back if a mistake is made. So how was Roland able to keep going backwards time after time?? Is he getting sent to different "whens" or "wheres" every time?

Also, the ending was very ironic.. Roland's ka-tet literally died and knowingly risked their lives saving the Beam at Thunderclap and how does the dark tower repay him? By giving him the chance to do it all over!

[Robert Gray]

No. I think you are making a wrong assumption. Roland is getting another chance at redemption, not to replay the same series of events in the same way. Roland is back on the trail of the man in black but he will not meet the exact same people nor follow the same trails. There are an infinite number of similiar worlds and all of them bear their own evil. Only the Tower and Roland remain in the eye of the hurricane. Roland will walk his long road again but it won't be the same road. Everything that happened, happened. Those people and worlds go on. That beam was saved. In this next cycle I'm sure he will fight other battles, save other things, affect new people. His Ka-tet and those other worlds are not doomed to circle around again, only Roland is so damned.

[cain625]

I think this was the perfect ending, but if I had to choose one, I would have Arthur send Roland back because he neglected to grab Eld's horn, and he no longer had his guns, so he wasn't worthy of being there without a sigul.

[BURAK]

could not be a better son.
could be a better finish.

[luckylauren21]

I really enjoyed the ending. I mean it could have gone no other way. Ka is a wheel and it is constantly rolling. The only thing I wish is that we could see what things changed the next go around. I guess that is why I keep rereading the books. In hopes of new battles, new experiences, and new ways to the tower.

[shook]

i thought it seemed like too easy of a way to end the story that took so long to read. but after thinking about it, i started to think that nothing would have been good enough to put at the top. it fits.