Mr Gray

[gill]

In "It", Pennywise the dancing clown is an alien named Robert Gray.
In "Dreamcatcher", the alien who takes over Jonesy's body and tries to infect the water supply is Mr Gray.
There are also references to "It" in "Dreamcatcher-when Mr Gray tries to infect the watertower 'Pennywise lives" is scrawled in red ink on the water tower, and there is also a memorial stone for the 7 characters of the losers club from "It".
I want to know, are Mr Gray and Robert Gray(Pennywise) aliens from the same planet?
Or are thery in fact the same alien character, and by Pennywise lives, are you trying to imply this?
I am aware there are recurring themes in most Stephen King books but this has been eating away at me!
Help me, please help me!

[JohnDalglish]

Hi,

This has been exhaustively discussed before, with no consensus.

Personally I believe that they are similar aliens (like Dandelo in DT) but I'm aware that's by no means a definitive opinion.

What do YOU think?

Long days and pleasant nights

[Telltelatoo]

I'm going to say with an almost definite "no" about them being the same character, or in fact even from the same "planet."
Mr. Gray was an alien, but he had very little supernatural power outside of the ability to take control of a host body (Jonesy's). IT seemed to be an alien in the sense that it came from another dimension; which was a place outside of the universe itself (The Macroverse). IT is a creature whose power is MUCH greater than Mr. Gray's. It's supernatural abilites and strength far outweigh Mr. Gray's small array of talents.
I can't tell you why Mr. Gray has the same last name as IT's alias, Robert Gray, but I'd say it's one of King's famous recurring themes at best.
Take note that Mr. Gray didn't know who Pennywise was, and that he immediately thought of John Wayne Gacy when Jonesy spoke to him about the murderous clown that had gone on a rampage in 1985.

[thepunisher82]

Mr. Gray from "Dreamcatcher" is not Pennywise. Neither is Dandelo or the Crimson King. I'm a big "IT" fan myself and while people online like their little theories about Pennywise being reincarnated as whatever creature in the multiverse, none of these characters are even worthy of being Pennywise. Pennywise was a God in the novel and was extremely powerful. Bill needed Gan's help to defeat it for good.

[Stranger]

i always thought that Dandelo and It were possibly from similar dimensions, maybe even the same "species" as they both seem to feed on emotions ultimately. Pennywise really isn't anyone, just a glamour that It chose to use to lure children into Its clutches, in my opinion, and also i have noticed in many of King's stories, names are recycled and with no connection whatsoever to the previous use, sure does get your brain workin though trying to figure it out :biggrin2:

[Telltelatoo]

Wait a minute.
Hasn't Stephen King himself actually confirmed that neither Dandelo nor the Crimson King are the same creature as IT?
I could have sworn he did, and yet I keep seeing threads that debate it.

[Robert Gray]

Robert (Pennywise) Gray, or more accurately "It," is quite clearly as presented in the novel. It is no more and no less. I hate being anal about it but it but we get a clear, direct look into the mind of It. Sai King indulges us briefly with two peeks into the monster's consciousness. There is no indication of it being connected (or interested) in the countless other worlds. It isn't a beast driven by ambition to take over the universe. It already believes in its supremacy.

I tend to read Sai King's novels (and series) independantly and immerse. I don't try to spend a lot of time working out connections between them. If there is a connection, it will be obvious without hashing over a lot of theories. However, since it seems to be fad of the century, I'll indulge to be part of the in-crowd. None of these other monsters is It. The aliens in Dreamcatcher are not It. Dandelo is not It. The Crimson King is not It. However, given the fact that time runs differently in different worlds and that you can travel forward and backward in it in most of them, nothing says that Dandelo and many other lesser horrors are not the spawn of It.

Did adult Ben get them all in the dark or did they scuttle off and escape through the rift as mom did? If this theory holds any water, this would make It not unlike Echidna of Greek mythology, i.e. the mother of monsters. There are a number of interesting parallels. All that being said, these are but parlour games. Some things are better not known, left a mystery. They frighten us more because they defy our understanding. I would recoil like a vampire from a cross if the entirety of Sai King's universe was somehow standarded and defined in a neat system.

[thepunisher82]

Wait a minute.
Hasn't Stephen King himself actually confirmed that neither Dandelo nor the Crimson King are the same creature as IT?
I could have sworn he did, and yet I keep seeing threads that debate it.

I am pretty sure he has confirmed that Dandelo and CK were not Pennywise. I think that he mentions them in the Dark Tower FAQ on this site. I don't know if he's ever been asked about Mr. Gray, but it doesn't seem like it even needs to be asked.

[Stranger]

Wait a minute.
Hasn't Stephen King himself actually confirmed that neither Dandelo nor the Crimson King are the same creature as IT?
I could have sworn he did, and yet I keep seeing threads that debate it.

i was not suggesting that, only that they are possibly from the same universe/dimension/level of the tower since they seem to be similar in certain ways and completely different in others.

[Telltelatoo]

i was not suggesting that, only that they are possibly from the same universe/dimension/level of the tower since they seem to be similar in certain ways and completely different in others.

Oh, I wasn't saying you were, sorry! I think your thread just brought back memories I had of other threads where the issues were still being debated.