random rant: Twlight fans

[strange]

WARNING: this is just a guy who's ticked off with certain individuals in the world, not anyone on this site. If offended by my comments keep in mind this is about only a few, I'm being stretotypical because it is only Stephanie Meyer fans who are doing this and I'm sick of it.

Has anyone ever noticed fans of Twlight and Stephanie Meyer seem to be oversentive and overzealous? Seriously though as an English student I've on another forum for a revision site and several Twlight fans argue and hate Robert Frost. Why? Apparently a guy who died 10 years before Stephanie Meyer was born stole her metaphor of fire and ice for one of his poems.

Or that a lot of Twlight fans seem to not be able to take criticism as I've come across hundreds of videos and commented hacking into Stephen King because he is apparently trying to take the spotlight off Meyer because he's not as good a writer?

The worse thing is as a English student I've heard from at lest two fans that Shakspreare ripped off Meyer....the other way round accutely......

I feel better now I've got that off my chest. :blush:

[JohnDalglish]

Hi,

What? Not pre-pubescent girls being 'oversensitive and overzealous?

Say 'tisn't so - what is the world coming to? Quelle domage!

Long days and pleasant nights

[md10pc]

We've had a few "Twilight fan" invasions on this board as well. I gather she has quite a lot of young fans so a lot of this may be due to immaturity.

The bit about stealing from Frost and Shakespeare--funny!

[Todash]

Yeah, basically most Twilight fans I've seen get all rabid seem to be girls who take the criticism of Twilight as personal attacks. It's just a kid thing. They'll get over it.

[KeyboardSamurai]

What I hate most about Twilight in general is the blatantly abusive relationship that Edward and Bella have. I explained this to someone, saying that Edward isolates Bella from her friends and implies that he will commit suicide if they cannot be together, she retorted with, "So? He's romantic!"

[SWNH1980]

I think if ppl want a story about a human romance with a vampire they should read the Sookie Stackhouse (True Blood) books by Charlaine Harris, some parts may be too mature for young people, but the books are written with a strong, smart female character, and they're fun, easy reads. I hate to sound like a public service ad, but if I ever have a daughter I'd rather she look up to Sookie Stackhouse, than the Bella character in Twilight (I tried to read the first Twilight book, I can't even remember character's whole name, I think that speaks volumes!)

[KeyboardSamurai]

Her name is Bella Swan. Gee, what a coincidence; it means beautiful swan.

[JohnDalglish]

Hi,

And the ancient (untrue) fable is that the swan sings beautifully just before it dies, and Pythagoras believed that the souls of all good poets passed into swans.

No aspersions here but Samuel Taylor Coleridge wrote -

'Swans sing before they die; 'twere no bad thing
Did certain persons die before they sing'

Long days and pleasant nights

[hipmamajen]

Yeah, I agree with the posters who've said that the rabid fangirls are probably so annoying because they're young.

I have a 13 year old girl, and 2 11 year old girls, and we all enjoyed Twilight together. The 11 year olds are the LOUDEST fans. Yikes!

Like Keyboard Samurai brought up, we've had lots of discussions about how Edward is sweet in the context of this fictional story, but if a real guy acts like that they need to RUN!

[mickeycat]

I am new here - wanted to add my 2 censt...I have a 13 yr old girls. They are still clueless about life, let alone great literature. I believe someday my daughter will be ashamed of her obsession. Things could be worse - they could be comparing the Jonas Bros to Mozart....MC

[Bryan James]

DISCLAIMER: I am unqualified to comment, as I have not read any of the books or seen the movie (but I intend to do both).

What I get from the movie clips I've seen is that the movie is specifically designed to appeal to folks (young and old) that feel isolated, neglected, and entitled to more than the hand they've been dealt.

They join the group of fans, and BLAMMO! instant identity, and a social group to boot.

GREAT marketing! That applies to most of us, Younglings these days even moreso.

Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris ring a bell, anyone?

A little bit scary...but here I am, posting on a Fan website myself. Hmmm....

BJS

[Mr Nobody]

The Coleridge quote made me lol. Cheers, John.

I think the telling thing is the age of the average Twilight fan. I know when I was in my teens, my opinion was king and anything I liked was fantastic while anything I disliked had absolutely no value, and people who liked what I didn't were ripe for burning (metaphorically).
However, I was never so ignorant of what had come before as to claim that Frost and Shakespeare had ripped off a favourite author. That just screams of poor education/lack of willingness to learn/rejection of facts. Take your pick.

Not read the books - and nor will I - but the stuff about the relationship between the central characters is worrying. If the relationship is isolationist/abusive, either physically or mentally, that's surely the wrong message to be sending to teenage girls (and women who read them). The last thing anyone wants to see is that ideal getting accepted as the norm, and in 10 years' time a string of abused women lining up in A&E departments sporting bruises or needing therapy to deal with mental abuse, and all of them going 'Oh, but he's so romantic! Just like in the books I read as a kid. '

[Todash]

Not read the books - and nor will I - but the stuff about the relationship between the central characters is worrying. If the relationship is isolationist/abusive, either physically or mentally, that's surely the wrong message to be sending to teenage girls (and women who read them). The last thing anyone wants to see is that ideal getting accepted as the norm, and in 10 years' time a string of abused women lining up in A&E departments sporting bruises or needing therapy to deal with mental abuse, and all of them going 'Oh, but he's so romantic! Just like in the books I read as a kid. '
This is the one thing that worries me about those books. When an 11-year-old reads Harry Potter, he knows that he can't really use the Expelliarmus spell on a bully, much as he would like to. But young girls are often already conditioned to think that having a boyfriend be your absolute everything is romantic and so can actually idolize the first stages of an abusive relationship. I guess the best we can do is what hipmamajen is doing with her daughters, making sure they know that something that sounds good on the page can be really scary in real life (and I'm not talking about sparkly vampires).

[staropeace]

I am still scratching my head at the Shakespear comment. Surely,they do not think he was a time traveller visiting the future?
If youths honestly do not know who Shakespear was and when he wrote,then we are in trouble,indeed. What is with the education system?

[Roseasharn]

I read all four of the books. I have a horrible issue with books: if I start, I have to finish. This one was a mistake, but a quick read and the vampires (outside edward's relationship with Bella and the fact that they SPARKLE) were kind of interesting. But on the whole, it was worse than the worst bodice ripper I've ever read.
My biggest problem with the books was the abusive nature of the relationship on BOTH sides. While I don't want my daughter thinking that if a man wants all your time, claims he can't live without you, constantly puts you in danger and could possibly KILL you if he isn't careful is romantic and somehow normal, I also don't want her to think that a woman should manipulate, blackmail, railroad and otherwise disrespect her partner. That behavior is destructive and can be abusive as well. I'm not going to lie and say that there isn't some manipulation in romantic relationships, but Bella was incredibly "gifted" at it.
I also don't want any of my kids to think it is normal to be unable to live without someone. The only exception to that is when you've been married 50+ years, your kids, grandkids and possibly some of your great-grandkids are all grown up, your life partner dies and you're worn out from all the living you have done. Other than that, nope. I do believe there are times when it is okay to decide you're done living. All of them involve terminal illnesses and do not involve needing someone else to make you whole.
What I found most interesting about my reaction to these books was that I kept hoping Bella would just fly to florida, fall off a cliff, get turned into a vampire or somehow magically age by 20 years. Anything to stop her from being how she was. I wonder what exactly that says about me? Aside from the obvious fact that I'm an idiot to continue reading the books in spite of that reaction.
I might have really enjoyed these books for a brief window of time between 11 and 12. And that is a time when I would be unlikely to let my own daughters read it.
But I think the others who commented before me have it right, it is youth and immaturity that cause them to make outlandish statements and to hate Robert Frost. They'll get over it, I hope. I think I got over being a teenage girl somewhere around 23....

[Crimson Door]

I am still scratching my head at the Shakespear comment. Surely,they do not think he was a time traveller visiting the future?
If youths honestly do not know who Shakespear was and when he wrote,then we are in trouble,indeed. What is with the education system?

If young people don't know who shakespeare is and not know that his work is well over 100 years old then i think it's safe to assume that the education system no longer works.

Take this person (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDQ2h4hrors), she says that Stephen King books are good and classics then half a second later she claims they're boring and she can't get past the first few pages O_O.

But yeah twilight fans are to defensive i just can't see why it is though it's not like the book is that well written or has memorable characters in it, someone explain to me the appeal of it all?

P.S Kurt Barlow> sparkly vamps.

[Deavlynn]

So, maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but honestly I think a lot of you are being really unfair. Yes, many of the Twilight fans are young. So are the Lemony Snicket fans, and the Holes fans. That's why they call it adolescent literature. It wasn't written for adults. However, there are a lot of adults who have really enjoyed these books too. I'm a 27-year-old, married, working professional and I think Twilight is awesome. My mom likes it too!

I don't think the big divider here is really age, I think it's gender. Most men don't give a crap and most women swoon. Granted, I have come across a lot of women who don't like it either, but usually they are just turned-off by other Twilight fans. Women have always hated women because we are by nature jealous and catty.

I agree that it's ridiculous to suggest that Shakespeare and/or Frost were taking Meyer's ideas, but at least these kids are discussing literature. You may not agree with their opinions, and no one says you have to, but at least be open to hearing their thoughts. I give them credit for being passionate about a book, even if it's a book that's not very good!

Do these books really give women unreasonable expectations in men? I don't think so. They like the fantasy. That doesn't make them stupid. What do you really think is going to happen? Oh no, more guys started opening car doors for their girl friends as a result of this book! Heaven forbid a 17 year old boy compose a piece of piano music! Edward is such a terrible role model.

Characters in books have always been exaggerations of real life. It's unfair to suggest that Stephenie Meyer has done something over the top when there have been so many fictional characters that are the same way.

It's a fad. It will pass. Let the fans enjoy it while they can.

[staropeace]

I dont think too many are claiming she has done anything over the top. Her work is mediocre at best.

[Roseasharn]

Do these books really give women unreasonable expectations in men? I don't think so. They like the fantasy. That doesn't make them stupid. What do you really think is going to happen? Oh no, more guys started opening car doors for their girl friends as a result of this book! Heaven forbid a 17 year old boy compose a piece of piano music! Edward is such a terrible role model.



If I recall correctly, Edward was somthing like 200 (at least) years old.
So, um, if a 50 year old guy with a 16 year old girl is a pervert, what's a 200 year old guy with a 16 year old girl?

That, of course, is part of the fantasy element. I highly doubt any of my daughters will be bringing around the undead for dates. And it isn't composing piano music or opening car doors I'm worried about.

I'm worried about the less obvious things. Take, for example, the fact that Edward hung out in Bella's bedroom at night while she slept. I believe it was a couple of days before he made her aware of this fact. Um, stalker much? Even within the confines of the story, that's just kind of creepy.

Yes, it is fantasy. Yes, it probably should be harmless. Yes, we should all teach our children about what a healthy relationship means. I certainly intend to.
And I'm not suggesting that no one else read these books.
I'm saying that, for my tastes and for the way I want to raise my daughters, I would prefer that they not read these books until a certain age. And if they must read them before a certain age or they'll "Die mom, I'll just die, everyone else is reading them. Why can't I? Jeez Mom, you're such a loser!" then they will have to suffer through discussing the aforementioned aspects of the books with me. In detail and at length.
Better safe than sorry.

[Todash]

So, maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but honestly I think a lot of you are being really unfair. Yes, many of the Twilight fans are young. So are the Lemony Snicket fans, and the Holes fans. That's why they call it adolescent literature. It wasn't written for adults. However, there are a lot of adults who have really enjoyed these books too. I'm a 27-year-old, married, working professional and I think Twilight is awesome. My mom likes it too!

... Do these books really give women unreasonable expectations in men? I don't think so. They like the fantasy. That doesn't make them stupid. What do you really think is going to happen? Oh no, more guys started opening car doors for their girl friends as a result of this book! Heaven forbid a 17 year old boy compose a piece of piano music! Edward is such a terrible role model.

But you're an adult. You can recognize it for the escapism it is. I think most of us enjoy a fun "beach read" from time to time (even if Twilight isn't it for me, personally). I just don't think a 13-year-old girl would likely have that same discernment without discussing it with an adult.

P.S. I will happily read juvenile and YA lit if it appeals to me, as will many of the members on this board, I'm sure. We were only pointing out that the reason for the impassioned defense of the Twilight books is the age of many of the readers.

[Lepplady]

I feel qualified to comment because I read the first ten pages of the first book. That's all I could force myself to slog through before I couldn't stand it any more. The marketing copy on the back cover was brilliant and intriguing, and it's painfully obvious that somebody besides the author came up with it.
Stephanie Meyer writes for crap. The fact that there's such a devoted following is not a testament to her talent. She doesn't have any. It means that her timing was good, and that she struck a nerve with lonely, angst-ridden teenagers. I hope she's made a lot of money because only one thing is more certain than death and taxes. It's that teenagers are fickle. They'll fight to the death to defend a cause one day, and then forget all about it the next. Some new flavor of the month will come along and all the kiddies will go running off to defend that one to the death. A few die-hards might follow Stephanie Meyers to the end, but for the most part, she'll be sifting through the dust bunnies in her inbox looking for a kind word.

[Mr Nobody]

Re: conditioning - guys are also 'conditioned' in the way they think about/see women (as both genders are capable of thought, personal insight, etc - I know it's not very PC of me to point this out. lol). Luckily, this stuff isn't aimed at guys.

"You may not agree with their opinions, and no one says you have to, but at least be open to hearing their thoughts."
And I'm maybe just playing Devil's Advocate, but is it really an opinion if you're factually wrong? I know the broad point was conceded - that's it's ridiculous to claim Meyer's been plagiarised - but even so... And am I really expected to listen to someone's 'thoughts' if they've already lost me by making an empty-headed claim?
Being fair to them - which I was being anyway - IF they listened to my correction, i.e. 'Actually, Shakey and Frost were a lot time dead before Meyer first picked up a pen, so how can they steal from her?', then I'd be inclined to listen to why they thought the books were so great because they'd probably have something interesting to say (as well as being able to reason).
I'd be more worried, though, about the apparent 'relationship norms' they might be extrapolating from the books. From what I've read and heard, it all seems to be Meyer's secret fantasy/fetish that she's sticking into her work. That might be OK for her, being an adult, and her other adult readers, but for her intended audience? :oo:

[Tery]

To be fair, most "fanatics" tend to be very proprietary about their obsession. I mean, some of us can be quite adamant about Uncle Stevie and his work. Other than the ones that attacked here recently, I haven't had much contact with Twilight fans. My daughter and her friend saw it and thought it was silly. I caught a bit of it on a PPV channel and, quite honestly, I found it banal and stupid. Well, we can't all like the same things...

As far as Twilight fanatics go, as long as they don't bother me, I won't bother them ;)

[poisonbat]

As most teenagers my daughters age (16) She read Twilight. She was thrilled, blah blah blah... But never got through the second book Eclipse or was it New Moon? :eyebrow: She soon lost interest and left the book to gather dust. :laugh: This too will pass as my grandmother used to say.:bat:

[Todash]

I feel qualified to comment because I read the first ten pages of the first book. That's all I could force myself to slog through before I couldn't stand it any more. The marketing copy on the back cover was brilliant and intriguing, and it's painfully obvious that somebody besides the author came up with it.
Stephanie Meyer writes for crap. The fact that there's such a devoted following is not a testament to her talent. She doesn't have any. It means that her timing was good, and that she struck a nerve with lonely, angst-ridden teenagers. I hope she's made a lot of money because only one thing is more certain than death and taxes. It's that teenagers are fickle. They'll fight to the death to defend a cause one day, and then forget all about it the next. Some new flavor of the month will come along and all the kiddies will go running off to defend that one to the death. A few die-hards might follow Stephanie Meyers to the end, but for the most part, she'll be sifting through the dust bunnies in her inbox looking for a kind word.I don't think this is entirely accurate. The bones of the story were there, and speaking strictly from a story perspective, for a first draft it wasn't bad. I mean, yes, the characters need fleshed out and the bad guys should have been introduced way before they were (IMO) to build tension ... and I could have totally done without the Mount Olympus-style baseball game. The language could stand to be revisited too. But with practice, reworks, and a good editor, Meyer has potential.

One part of the book that I did like was the sparkling. It seems silly on the face of it, but the idea of having the "can only come out in the night" idea exposed as a myth arising from a misunderstanding of vampiric inclinations was actually, I thought, quite clever. The idea of vampires not coming out in bright daylight because they could be easily visually identified was really pretty slick, as much as it gets mocked.

[Dana]

I don't know, my preteen daughter read the series, and she thought they were "just okay". She didn't go all rabid fangirl over it, maybe she's not old enough? She hasn't asked for any Edward posters or anything yet, anyway.
I have to admit, though, the other Moms I know who have become obsessed with the series get on my nerves a little bit. I keep getting behind one of them at school that has their car all blinged out with Twilight stuff and even has a huge decal that says "I drive like a Cullen" :oo: I think that's a little over the top. :biggrin2:

[Roseasharn]

P.S. I will happily read juvenile and YA lit if it appeals to me, as will many of the members on this board, I'm sure. We were only pointing out that the reason for the impassioned defense of the Twilight books is the age of many of the readers.

Me, too! I just finished reading an oldie but goodie, Lyddie by Katherine Patterson. I'm going to read it with my stepdaughter this summer. A good book that lends itself to a history teaching moment! WIN!