Lud & Geography

[Robert Gray]

A previous thread had speculated on whether or not Lud is New York City. I would argue that it isn't. In the Dark Tower VI there is a "Coda" wherein we listen to the commentary of Stephen King via his diary. I won't go into specifics so as not to create a spoiler, but Meijis spoken of as being Mexico. This gives us a solid anchor by which we can somewhat interpret Roland's world.

It is clear that the Western Sea is the Pacific. It is also clear that the great desert is the great wastes of our own world. Where Roland crosses the mountains is up in the air. We know he sees no great ruins upon the western coast so his arrival there is likely in an area between them or in Roland's world the topography changed enough to eat the coast much closer to the mountains (VERY LIKELY) given how short a trip it is to the ocean itself. I echo the comments of another that Lud is likely a futuristic sprawl of Las Vegas in Roland's World and not NYC.

[JohnDalglish]

Hi,

I think Lud is an apotheosis of awful cities, rather than a representation of any 'our world' cities.

I see touches of London in it, particularly in some of the dialect employed, and I think the name itself, 'Lud' is interesting.

Lud was a mythical king of Britain. According to Geoffrey of Monmouth, he was the beautifier of London who was buried by the Ludgate, named after him. It is also suggested that the name is that of a Celtic river-god.

And Ludgate was one of the former Western gates of the City of London, first mentioned in the 12th century. It stood halfway up Ludgate Hill, was rebuilt after extensive damage in 1586 and demolished 1760-62. It was used as a prison for several centuries. The statues of Lud and his two sons that once adorned the gate are now in the entrance of St Dunstan's School.

And the wreckage of the Focke-Wulf would tend to suggest a European origin IMO.

Long days and pleasant nights

[Prince of Darkness]

Hi,

When you put it that way it seems very plausible, actually.

I always thought of Mejis being somewhere around Texas and considering there is one mention that the sea is on their right once even though they are travelling along the Western Sea always made me think of Lud as NYC.

But wait... Gee willikers! Go check in Wizard and Glass and you'll see that when the gunslingers fail their test they are sent east... which means if Mexico is Mejis, then he eventually goes in the direction of NYC. :wink2:

Just some brain candy, but I think you have a good point. Sai King did this to rack our brains, I'm sure. :biggrin2:

Long days and pleasant nights

[psj77]

Considering There is no telling how long the walk to Lud took. I always figured it was Chicago. I Think they are out of the desert by the time they reach Lud. I could be wrong though.

[Bluey Lunger]

didn't they move london bridge to somewhere in the desert? just a thought.

[Moderator]

didn't they move london bridge to somewhere in the desert? just a thought.


There's still a London Bridge in London but the one that was replaced with the current bridge is now in Lake Havasu, AZ. (http://www.golakehavasu.com/londonbridge.html)

[Crop]

Didn't Roland think that Lud and New York were the same in book VII?
Something about the skyline and Brooklyn bridge looking like the one they crossed when Gnasher took Jake?

[Crop]

Sorry for double posting:)
*Minor spoiler
On page 521 in book VII, when Roland is in Keyworld New York, there is a paragraf that goes like this:
"Roland nodded and watched the streets of the City -a version of lud, but still young and vital -go by."

Guess that is proof enough of Lud being a future New York:)

The

[Prince of Darkness]

Hi,

Thank you, Crop! :biggrin2:

My thoughts exactly. I'm just kind of too lazy to go look in the books, LOL.

Long days and pleasant nights

[Crop]

No problem ;)
I've just finished the dark tower myself so it's still kinda fresh in my mind.

[Ebdim9th]

As they cross one bridge, they can see another bridge much like it, that has already collapsed and fallen into the water. This may be New York, but if so, what are the Wastelands that are abutted directly against it? Also, this is described as maybe being several thousand years from our approximate when. Maybe it was San Fransisco, that's another possibility, with all the drastic geographic changes that are sometimes implied. Now if S.K. himself says Meijis is Mexico, well that settles that. Also, what happened to tapping oneself on the chest three times with knuckles to greet a man instead of to the neck to greet a woman? It seems this distinction has at least temporarily, by book four, been left by the wayside...

[Ebdim9th]

I know this is a double post, but Mod(s) you can change it into an edit or merge the two if you want...

I think I've figured out where Lud is. There are plains where that small town of the elders is on the way to Lud, but there is also the River Send. Add two more possible rivers and maybe a third bridge, with more plains and some mountains on the other side which might qualify as the wastelands after some unimaginable war where the land, like the top of an elevator, dropped drastically down as a result, if I'm reading S. King's description right. The result would be, like that Craven liveries or some such in Ritzy the next town over that DePape rides into looking for the Gunslingers' backtrail in the story of Meijis, a 'shout out' to George Romero and the city of Pittsburgh.

My offering then for 'Allworld' alternates is Lud = Pittsburgh.

The Pubes were afraid that Blaine, in anger, would reanimate thier dead and make them rise and come after them. Maybe this had happened before.

Also, another nice little touch, SK called 'em Luddites. They definitely lived in a post-technological world, there's no doubt about that.

[BlackThorn]

... This gives us a solid anchor by which we can somewhat interpret Roland's world.

This is an oxymoron. In Roland's world, the anchors have released their anchorage. If you were going to base anything on anything, I'd start with the beams, myself.

;)

[Damaja]

I agree with Crop... Its all still fresh in my mind aswell, and Roland definatley looks at the New York skyline and the bridge in the distance and says hes looking at a younger version of Lud.. so there is no doubt in my mind that Lud is in fact New York.

[Ebdim9th]

As far as drastic geographic changes in Roland's world go, I do remember him telling Eddie that a trip which should have taken him weeks, I think he said, wound up taking him years, implying that the distance of the ground itself had expanded many thousands of miles... so if Lud is yet and still an alter-New York, that may explain some of the major changes in the land and waters around it.