Should prostitution be legalized?

[Moderator]

Why bother?

1. The money it would raise from taxation.
2. The safety of having the product under regulation. Remember paraquat?
3. It cuts down on illegal activities related to it.
4. It frees prison space for people who actually deserve to be there.

KTHNXBAI ;)


I should probably start a new thread for this as it's off-topic, but all of these arguments could also apply to prostitution. Another activity that isn't going to go away just because it's been legislated as illegal. I'm not so sure it could be called a "product" per se but there are a lot of safety factors that would come about if it was legalized. It's already been legalized in parts of Nevada so there's a precedent for how it could work.

[Moderator]

I'm being lazy and just copied this from the thread regarding the California bill re marijuana as I wanted to have a new thread so it wouldn't hijack the other one. :smile2:

[Todash]

I don't know about the taxation thing with prostitution since it's a service, not a product, and services aren't generally taxed, right? I guess each trick could come with a really expensive condom, and THAT could be taxed.

[FlakeNoir]

It actually has been decriminalised (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_New_Zealand) in New Zealand.

[Moderator]

I don't know about the taxation thing with prostitution since it's a service, not a product, and services aren't generally taxed, right? I guess each trick could come with a really expensive condom, and THAT could be taxed.


But there would have to be income taxes and all the other income withholding (Social Security, Medicare, etc.) paid which isn't being done now.

[SKfan2006]

i'm not really sure since the prostitutes won't know what diseise the guy has which makes it risky but putting people in jail just for having sex is silly since everyone has to do sex in order to get born.

[Moderator]

i'm not really sure since the prostitutes won't know what diseise the guy has which makes it risky but putting people in jail just for having sex is silly since everyone has to do sex in order to get born.

The flip side to that is that currently they could be spreading diseases (knowingly or not) once infected but, if legalized, there should be mandatory testing for STDs of the prostitutes. That would help prevent STDs from spreading as well as keeping them healthy if they're not using protection. And, yes, there is such a thing as female condoms.

[TBlack]

So Pimps should offer Major Medical with Dental plans & a 401K package?

[TBlack]

Then Offealia could file a sex dicrimination suit against Jimmy Ray claiming he offered the other girls "Special Favors" while neglecting her particular needs... then The Better Business Bureau would create a Unsatisfactory Pimp Heading for JR & none of the other Biotches would wanna trick fo him no mo.

[JohnDalglish]

Hi,

The Dutch position deserves scrutiny, insofar as prostitution (and marijuana) is legal and controlled in Amsterdam, with regular health checks, income tax and so on.

I don't know a great deal about how the legal position actually works in the Netherlands, but I do know that the Dutch are both the best educated and the happiest nation in the world (World Health Organisation), so I thing we can all learn a lot from them. They also have a very low level of sex crime compared with the rest of our more repressed societies.

And not for nothing is it known as 'the oldest profession'.

Long days and pleasant nights

[smjohn]

so pimps should offer major medical with dental plans & a 401k package?

lololol

[Maddie]

I dont smoke it, but I think marijuana should definetly be legalized, no one ever gets stoned and commit crimes, lol, and organized prostitution, why not...? but cause they make so much money off of these things being illegal, unfortunately gov and criminal justice system only care about its financial gain than health and existence of people, and to legalize marijuana and prostitution would take away from their 'crimes' and 'huge fines' very much.

[Draga]

Here in Spain it's legal, but police is always discovering new cases of human trafficking in brothels. :sad:

[PatInTheHat]

Hell, it already is nationaly, but the real trick is, they call it politics.
Ever notice how many politicians are named John?
Just here lately there's a bushel basket of 'em
There was John Edwards..oh yeah babe, and John Kerry (very vanilla I suspect and his wife is in the condoment business I believe...how curious:eyebrow:), then there's John McCain, and of course there's good 'ol John Boner right up the road from me in Ohio.
The list must be a mile long for them little tricksters!

Oh, let us not forget one of the most famous John's of all, JFK.
Now that 'ol boy saw some action I'm here to tell ya now didn't he:y:?

Gee whiz, it's like they're fallin' out of tree's and gettin' shook out of the bushes.
Speaking of bushes, talk about payin' fat for a good...well, you know:rolleyes:.

Legalize it?
Hell yes...doh!

[Jax]

So Pimps should offer Major Medical with Dental plans & a 401K package?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Jax]

Then Offealia could file a sex dicrimination suit against Jimmy Ray claiming he offered the other girls "Special Favors" while neglecting her particular needs... then The Better Business Bureau would create a Unsatisfactory Pimp Heading for JR & none of the other Biotches would wanna trick fo him no mo.

TBlack....you're killing me here......:rofl::rofl:

[poisonbat]

Women are supposed to be able to do whatever they want with their bodies. If they get pregnant they are allowed without the fathers consent to have an abortion. Why is it that they are not allowed to have consensual sex with another person and get paid for it? If it was legalized and regulated then the disease factor would go way down. So would the murder and beating of these women. This is not a ''profession" that I would want for myself or my daughter, but I just don't think that it should be illegal either. I was raised with a different set of morals and values that would prevent me from doing this, but there are thousands of these girls that do this to put food on the table for their kids. If they were more protected both sexually and physically, I think it would be better for them. :bat:

[Srbo]

Well...sorry now, call me closed minded, an idiot and whatnot...

I am pretty old fashioned and...and I don`t like a World where prostitution is legal, drugs are legal, a guy walks around with 17 piercings, tatoos over the whole body, girls are pregnant at 12 and so on...

Sorry, but a World like that has absolutely no appeal in it...and no magic at all...

[TBlack]

Then all the formerly gainfully employed skanky hos would have to resort to smuggling yet to be decriminalized marijuana in their formerly gainfully employed who-whos while fraternizing outside the 7-11 lending new insites into the question,
"Do you smoke after sex?"

"Not any more... I smoke after I get my Food Stamps!"

[Terry B]

Should prostitution be legalized? Just like the marijuana question - yes indeed. Legalize it and tax it.

[staropeace]

I agree with Srbo. I like to think that women are valued more in society as human beings....not as sexual objects with one specific task. That is just my opinion....just like my views on weed. I dont think that anything that smells that bad can be good for you. If you have to use a lighter and set up aflame...and breath the smoke into your lungs...then I cant see the goodness there. It is good that public places have banned smoking cigarettes. I dont want people to be allowed to smoke weed around me. There has been several arguments about that already here in Canada. One bar owner almost lost his liscence.

I think we can come up with tons of situs and say should government legalize.....we could use the same premise and the same arguments...

Just stick any whatif in there...

[rose key]

Then all the formerly gainfully employed skanky hos would have to resort to smuggling yet to be decriminalized marijuana in their formerly gainfully employed who-whos while fraternizing outside the 7-11 lending new insites into the question,
"Do you smoke after sex?"

"Not any more... I smoke after I get my Food Stamps!"

I'm sorry, I beg to differ. I'm absolutely sure that the correct spelling is "hoo-hoos". :wink2:

[staropeace]

Just wondering...the dutch situation was mentioned...if anyone has heard stuff about the Kiddie Porn arguments in that country? I think folks can argue support for anything and make it sound reasonable.

http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/02/dutch_to_prosec.html

[CorbinKale]

Prostitution HAS been legalized and subsidized. It is called marriage.

[~Ally~]

Hi, i agree prostitution should be legalised so long as they promote their services in buildings (Brothels).
Run legitimately would surely be better from a personal safety aspect...if girls didn't have to work on the streets under the cover of darkness for fear of being caught by the police then they could work in a safer more controlled environment.

It's not that long ago here in England that the Suffolk Strangler murdered all those prostitutes and although we may not all agree with their 'job' they shouldn't be exposed to such danger...after all they are ordinary people with families and parents and friends the same as we are.

[Srbo]

Prostitution HAS been legalized and subsidized. It is called marriage.

I don`t understand this post.

Is this a joke ? :eek2:

[SKfan2006]

The flip side to that is that currently they could be spreading diseases (knowingly or not) once infected but, if legalized, there should be mandatory testing for STDs of the prostitutes. That would help prevent STDs from spreading as well as keeping them healthy if they're not using protection. And, yes, there is such a thing as female condoms.

i wasn't going with the whole legal angle but with the current angle of how it is. besides i'm most of the guys wouldn't want to use a condom at all.

[abacus]

I think that prostitution is dangerous for the women involved. I think a lot of young people are being kidnapped and sold into prostitution as slaves. I think the destitute are taken advantage of and placed into prostitution. I believe slaves and the destitute, near slaves, make up the majority of prostitution. I believe the women are raped and beaten on a daily basis by both their clients and pimps. I believe it is wrong to arrest women and children in prostitution. I believe it is right to arrest the men who prostitute. I do not think legalizing prostitution will stop sex slavery, and may only legitimize it by proxy.

[devious1]

actually abacus, i believe legalizing and regulating prostitution would remove these elements altogether. if prostitutes are taken off the street and placed into brothels, it removes the pimps from the equation. there are places in the US where prostitution is legal, and the brothels/whorehouses are run like legitimate businesses. the women who work in these places are not slaves who are forced into work, they want to be there and chose to be there. if there are regulations in place it would make prostitution safer and remove the criminal element out of the situation altogether. i'm for it.

[JohnK]

Make it legal, but make it safe for those who want or have to engage in it. Tax the pimps, and protect the women.

[arista]

I say if you are going to do prostitution it should be legalized, to assist the women who are selling their bodies in having perhaps safer sex and screening the clients more, like the bunny ranch. Do I think prostitution is a good idea-That would be a big no.

[Haunted]

i don't know about the taxation thing with prostitution since it's a service, not a product, and services aren't generally taxed, right? I guess each trick could come with a really expensive condom, and that could be taxed.

ewwwwwww

[Todash]

I say if you are going to do prostitution it should be legalized, to assist the women who are selling their bodies in having perhaps safer sex and screening the clients more, like the bunny ranch. Do I think prostitution is a good idea-That would be a big no.
At first read, I didn't think that word was "screening." :blush:

[TBlack]

I'm sorry, I beg to differ. I'm absolutely sure that the correct spelling is "hoo-hoos". :wink2:
Depends on whose hoo-hoo you peruse!

[arista]

:rofl:
At first read, I didn't think that word was "screening." :blush:

[abacus]

A choice for a poor person, a destitute person is not the same as a choice for a rich person or a person who has more opportunities available to them. Men continue to have more economic opportunities and make more money than women, who often times struggle to raise families on minimum wage. We should fix the economic gaps before legalizing prostitution, but I think long strides can be made by focusing on the men who enslave women rather than trying to arrest the prostitutes. Prostitution should not look like a good idea for women who need to make a living, were it legalized. I also don't find a compelling reason to believe that legalizing any trade will prevent slavery in that trade, as women and female children across the globe continue to be sold into slavery for sex.

[FlakeNoir]

I say if you are going to do prostitution it should be legalized, to assist the women who are selling their bodies in having perhaps safer sex and screening the clients more, like the bunny ranch. Do I think prostitution is a good idea-That would be a big no.

That is pretty much what has happened here. The women now have access to much better healthcare (good for all those...erm, involved) and it is just a much safer environment for the people that lets face it, would carry on doing this regardless of its legality.

[Agincourt Concierge]

Prostitution HAS been legalized and subsidized. It is called marriage.


yeah....I wish.....ROFL..... Hell...if he thought there might be a profit to be made.....things would be looking up around here!!! :biggrin2:

[Agincourt Concierge]

Dang......if it gets legalized in this country....I can move my little, red-light shop back here..... such a long way to travel..... the jet lag really keels me.... :D

[catzinjammer8778]

I believe that yes, prostitution should be legalized. By legalizing it, it would be regulated. This would mean that there could be laws stating when, and how, the "sale" could take place. These laws could protect everyone involved, not just the working girl/guy or the customer.

I have been looking at the proposed law, because if the law is passed, I have a long-term business plan to open a brothel, possibly in Alaska. (Think about it - the ratio of women to men in Alaska is 107 men to 100 women. Also, it's very cold up there.) I have been looking at how such a business could benefit everyone involved, including the government.

As everyone knows, sex sells. By capitalizing on this, the government could make a lot of money. A service would be offered, for which a customer would pay. Since a service is offered, the government would be allowed to collect taxes from each customer. Since the working girls/guys would be on the books, the government would also get income taxes from each employee. A brothel could also offer side services, such as possibly a bar or an eatery, which would generate even more income (meaning more taxes that can be collected). Selling other related products, such as condoms, etc. would also generate income that could be taxed. The brothel also has the potential to bring in new customers to other establishments in the area, helping the whole area to prosper.

As a business, the employers would have access to lower-cost health insurance for the employees than the employees would otherwise get access to. Having access to health insurance has been found, time and again, to lower the incidence of disease, since preventative measures can be put in place before anything even happens.

[Jax]

yeah....I wish.....ROFL..... Hell...if he thought there might be a profit to be made.....things would be looking up around here!!! :biggrin2:

:rofl::rofl:

[smooth operator]

I'm being lazy and just copied this from the thread regarding the California bill re marijuana as I wanted to have a new thread so it wouldn't hijack the other one. :smile2:

Isn't that called recycling?

As for legalization of prostitution, I am all for it. I believe that it would result in much safer conditions for the prostitutes and their customers. If it was regulated, I believe a lot of young women could avoid being forced into selling themselves by some pimp. As a woman, I do not feel degraded by prostitution - I have not chosen this line of work, and I do not judge those who have. I just feel that it is a choice that each person should be allowed to make on their own.
As for taxation - if it were legalized, it would be taxed.
Also, I do not mean to sound sexist - men have just as much right to choose prostitution as a profession as women do.

[Mr Nobody]

Again, I wouldn't partake, but legalizing it seems a sensible idea. You wouldn't have pimps, the crime and violence would be drastically reduced, and then there are the health and taxation benefits.
And let's not bash men and pretend it's men that always force women into prostitution; many women choose to do it. Nor is that the fault of professional males. You might as well say it is the fault of professional females that minimum-wage earning men drink beer and act like slobs. In both cases, there are sweeping generalizations and assumptions being made (i.e. that all low-paid males are beer-swilling slobs and all female prostitutes are forced into it because they're denied opportunity).
It also ignores the fact that, while the situation may not be perfect, women are now more 'equal' than they have ever been. I can't speak for the US because I don't know, but recently in the UK legislation was passed that allows (or enforces, if you like) for preference to be given to women over men in the job market. Once upon a time, I'd walk into an office block and it would be mostly men, with women being secretaries and suchlike. Now I walk in, and there are more women than men, and many of them are in 'serious' roles.
Bottom line: some women will underachieve, in the same way that some men do. Then there are those who do achieve, but turn to prostitution - I seem to recall some scandal a few years back because a female student at Cambridge University (or maybe it was Oxford...one of the biggies, anyway) was caught 'offering herself' so she could pay her fees. There have been stories since of others having done the same before her, and having continued in that life despite being qualified at degree level.
Either way, you're never going to stop it. Fines, prison sentences, the dangers of the street...none of it has made any difference, so ultimately you have to go another way.

[Tery]

I grew up in Las Vegas and we all knew about the legal brothels "up north." ;)

In many ways, the regulation that would come with legalization would be a huge boon to the industry. And yes, it's an industry. The taxes obtained by it would be a boon to the Federal budget.

Reasons why I support its legalization? The girls are protected from violence, they are provided with health care for themselves and their families (many are single Moms), they have housing, their taxes go to the community, they do not live in fear.

Look, there's a reason its called "the oldest profession." It will never disappear. That is a fact. To continue to treat it like a dirty secret is just plain stupid, IMHO.

[Autumnlyn]

I only know one thing for a fact...Sex is good. Everyone likes having sex. Most people are looking to get laid. What more could a business person ask for in the supply and demand market?

Why not legalize prostitution. It is a simple transaction between someone looking to have sex, and willing to pay for it, and someone who is looking to give sex and be paid. Win-win situation here. In a safe environment where it is open, legal and 'quallity controlled', I say go for it.

[BlackThorn]

Hey, the hookers we found right across the border to Montreal, had doctor prescribed condoms. Industrial strengthies.

Yes, totally legalize prostitution! I charge $100 an hour, and prefer a classy client, like a lawyer or a doctor, or some chicky that's somehow very professional. Oh, and check my references. Most would have happily paid $300, and about 80% of my work is repeat business. I take my job very seriously baby.

One hooker with a heart of gold, coming right up.

[LOL, on a side note, imagine being that little hooker on Craigslist that stated, "highly negotiable! 18 dollars for five minutes!"]

[Eleese of Gilead.]

Like John and Gene Simmons have both brought to our attention, women selling sex is one of the oldest professions around.
Yes, prostitution can be dangerous, but why? Often times in North America these acts take place on the worst streets in the worst neighbourhoods. Regulated by pimps who have reputations of being abusive. Drugs are sometimes involved in these prostitution rings as well, it's one hot mess.
I know it's hard to control people who solicit sex, but if it were legalized wouldn't we be able to screen individuals? Kinda like how we decide who gets welfare or which family gets to live in low income housing?
Prostitution will remain a part of society. It's time we come to terms with it and get a grip on real life scenarios. We can make a difference in these women's lives and really impact the economy.
These girls should be recognized for their services, why not? Ho's need Health Care too. Especially when you consider that some of the men out the getting their kicks are well-to-do's, professionals, some with families. That's the real crime if you ask me. Why should these girls get the short end of the stick?

[Agincourt Concierge]

Like John and Gene Simmons have both brought to our attention, women selling sex is one of the oldest professions around.
Yes, prostitution can be dangerous, but why? Often times in North America these acts take place on the worst streets in the worst neighbourhoods. Regulated by pimps who have reputations of being abusive. Drugs are sometimes involved in these prostitution rings as well, it's one hot mess.
I know it's hard to control people who solicit sex, but if it were legalized wouldn't we be able to screen individuals? Kinda like how we decide who gets welfare or which family gets to live in low income housing?
Prostitution will remain a part of society. It's time we come to terms with it and get a grip on real life scenarios. We can make a difference in these women's lives and really impact the economy.
These girls should be recognized for their services, why not? Ho's need Health Care too. Especially when you consider that some of the men out the getting their kicks are well-to-do's, professionals, some with families. That's the real crime if you ask me. Why should these girls get the short end of the stick?


You got it.....not to mention the pimps that beat the crap out of these poor girls to keep them in line.... I'm sorry....I think pimps happen to be close to the bottom of the social barrel.....

[Roseasharn]

Pimps make me ill. If I were a prostitute, I'd buy a body guard and free lance it. There is no way I would do all the damn work and suffer all the danger and then hand over a large chunk of my earnings to some guy who does nothing but make connections and kick my butt.
Nope. Not gonna do it.
And I can't get behind the way it is now. If someone rapes a prostitute, it's all kinds of Catch-22. you can make a report...but are you going to get busted for selling your goods? Meanwhile, a rapist goes free. Free!
That's all kinds of not okay.
If we legalize it, we can cut down on that issue, if we're regulating it, maybe we can cut down on underage prostitution, as well. And I'm all for that.
The only thing to be had from having it be illegal is the idea that we are somehow being morally upright. Because if it's illegal, it doesn't exist, right? That argument makes no sense.
Meanwhile, sexually transmitted diseases are running rampant and women are being abused.
I'm going to get off my soapbox now. :smile2:

[RandomMan]

I live in a small town so I'm voting a BIG N-O on legalizing prostitution. Us small town folk like our sluts free and inconspicuous.

[BlackEye]

You got it.....not to mention the pimps that beat the crap out of these poor girls to keep them in line.... I'm sorry....I think pimps happen to be close to the bottom of the social barrel.....

No need to be sorry, I'm pretty sure you stated a fact. :biggrin2:

[JohnDalglish]

Why should these girls get the short end of the stick?

Hi,

Interesting choice of phrase, Eleese LOL.

Long days and pleasant nights

[Gwenivere]

Henry Winkler and Michael Keaton:

Bill (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000474/): We're all adults here - we can talk about this openly...
[writing on chalkboard]
Bill (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000474/): PROSTITUTION! But what does that mean really? Sometimes it helps to understand a word if you break it down, so let's do that now shall we? Pros... it doesn't mean anything, you can forget about that... Tit, I think we all know what that means, Tu, two tit and TION of course, from the Latin to shun... to say uh-uh no thank you anyway I don't want it, to push away... it doesn't even belong in this word really.


Chuck Lumley (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001857/): As we sit here and idly chat, there are woman, female human beings, rolling around in strange beds with strange men, and we are making money from that.
Bill Blazejowski (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000474/): Is this a great country, or what?

Bill (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000474/): LOVE BROKERS!

I've always thought Heidi Fleiss was an exceptional businesswoman.

[Frizz]

If prostitution was legalized we might see a drop in sex crimes, but there would probably be a sharp rise in sexually transmitted diseases and AIDS. Also there might be more violent crimes and robberies, being as there would be a lot of prostitutes walking around with money. Plus there would be a lot of territorial disputes between so called pimps and madams. And unfortunately violence will probably result because of it. So it is definately a win/lose situation. It's one of those things that nobody would ever totally agree upon.

[Agincourt Concierge]

Hi,

Interesting choice of phrase, Eleese LOL.

Long days and pleasant nights



I thought it...but I wasn't going to say it......:biggrin2:

[Tery]

If prostitution was legalized we might see a drop in sex crimes, but there would probably be a sharp rise in sexually transmitted diseases and AIDS. Also there might be more violent crimes and robberies, being as there would be a lot of prostitutes walking around with money. Plus there would be a lot of territorial disputes between so called pimps and madams. And unfortunately violence will probably result because of it. So it is definately a win/lose situation. It's one of those things that nobody would ever totally agree upon.

I vehemently disagree. I think the point has been very well made that legalization would insure a higher standard of health. It would also affect the crime rate; much of that which is cited includes prostitution itself so most studies are (to use Todash's favorite word) specious. Walking around with money? What kind of silly statement is that? There are always people walking around with money, even non-prostitutes.

Territorial disputes? With the women practicing in a brothel? Hardly.

I think it would behoove you to read the other posts in this thread. You will see thoughtful and rational arguments in favor of legalization. Your final statement is true, however. Unfortunately too many people have a knee-jerk reaction to the idea. This topic would benefit from reasoned, informed thought and discussion.

[abacus]

Frizz makes a really good point here, because you're basically talking about bringing in people to an area who are, more likely than not, pretty unsavory. Yes most men, including well-paid business men, pay for sex, but they are probably in the minority of the clients we would see frequenting a brothel.

I don't see a problem with legalizing the sale of sex. I just think it should be done only in a context where women have equal access to education, economy and the literacy statistics are similar and where rich men aren't taking advantage of poor women, thereby reinforcing the stigma that women are the sex class. Until then it is not likely to have a good outcome for women.

[Eleese of Gilead.]

Hi,

Interesting choice of phrase, Eleese LOL.

Long days and pleasant nights

I was going to add "no pun intended" but I wasn't sure how that one would go over. You do have a knack for finding these things John...

[devious1]

Frizz makes a really good point here, because you're basically talking about bringing in people to an area who are, more likely than not, pretty unsavory. Yes most men, including well-paid business men, pay for sex, but they are probably in the minority of the clients we would see frequenting a brothel.

I don't see a problem with legalizing the sale of sex. I just think it should be done only in a context where women have equal access to education, economy and the literacy statistics are similar and where rich men aren't taking advantage of poor women, thereby reinforcing the stigma that women are the sex class. Until then it is not likely to have a good outcome for women.actually again, i must say that this isn't quite true. if prostitution was legalized and taxed and regulated, the price of the "product" being sold would increase... therefore the type of "unsavory people" you're thinking about would not be a problem as they most likely wouldn't be able to afford their services. brothels usually have high class women, and high class comes with a price those unsavory types usually can't afford.

[JohnDalglish]

I was going to add "no pun intended" but I wasn't sure how that one would go over. You do have a knack for finding these things John...

Hi,

Mind in the gutter, I'm afraid, Eleese, mind in the gutter LOL

Long days and pleasant nights

[smjohn]

I just can't quite wrap my head around "High Class" and "Prostitution" being anything but a conundrum.

[devious1]

well i guess that depends on your definition of class, smjohn... if someone chooses a profession, and strives to do it well, regardless of the profession, i don't see anything classless about that. but that's my opinion.

[Srbo]

Well, look at this:


A well-known prostitute who campaigned for the rights and dignity of sex workers was given an honored place of rest on Monday, in the same cemetery where Protestantism's John Calvin is buried, and some female activists criticized the decision.


Griselidis Real, who died in 2005, was buried in the presence of 200 people at the Cemetery of the Kings, which is reserved for individuals who have profoundly marked Swiss or international history. Argentine writer Jorge Luis Borges and child psychologist Jean Piaget are among the luminaries interred there.

The body of Real, who was 76 when she died, 10 years after she is said to have given up prostitution, was exhumed from another cemetery in Geneva for the ceremony that some - particularly women - have called offensive.

"If every woman that had children to raise alone turned to prostitution, the city of Geneva would be a bordello," said Amelia Christinat, a feminist and former member of the Swiss parliament who opposed Real's reburial.

Jacqueline Berenstein-Wavre, the first woman to head Geneva's parliament, also objected.

"No woman should rejoice at this transfer, which is nothing but the elevation of a prostitute and of prostitution in general by its male protectors," she told the daily Tribune de Geneve, which noted the paucity of women buried in the honored ground, less than a quarter of the 350 graves.

Prostitution is generally legal in Switzerland, with red-light districts in some cities. But Real worked for years to improve working conditions.

She helped found Aspasie, an association that describes itself as promoting solidarity among sex workers. Aspasie says she compiled an extensive collection of newspaper clippings, films and other documentation about prostitution over 30 years and that her four children donated the database to the association on her death.

Real was born in 1929 in Lausanne. A divorced mother of four children, she began working as a prostitute in Germany in the 1960s and later moved to Geneva, becoming a leading campaigner for prostitutes' rights.

In her autobiographical books she denounced the hypocrisy of a society that condemns prostitutes while using their services.

Patrice Mugny, a local politician who championed the transfer, said the city was "in no case apologizing for prostitution, but honoring an individual who distinguished herself by battling for human dignity."

"This shows that human dignity is not a question of social status, that it is not limited by moral prescriptions," he said at the ceremony.

Ruth Morgan Thomas, a leading European campaigner for prostitutes, said the burial was an important recognition for sex workers "who demand simply to be treated without discrimination and valued as an integral part of society."

This article appeared on page A - 4 of the San Francisco Chronicle

[smjohn]

well i guess that depends on your definition of class, smjohn... if someone chooses a profession, and strives to do it well, regardless of the profession, i don't see anything classless about that. but that's my opinion.

Not to be snarky, but my definition of class is not spreading your legs, etc... for any stranger with enough money.

[staropeace]

So if someone is a hitman and does his job well...whacking guys....does that mean that someone is classy?

[Hedda Gabler]

Oh hell yes. Then maybe my husband would leave me the hell alone.

Ya know, give me a break, I am so done with sexing you up. That's right. I said it. I mean it. Nothing's wrong with me. Maybe something's wrong with YOU wanting it all the time. Give me give me give me. Please, please, please. whine, whine, whine. I can't take it anymore. :biggrin2:

[tillyn]

Not legal in Ont. but in BC. Lots of money spent trying to get the sellers. I think money could be put to better use else where.

[deluxe]

On the fence with this..... still thinkning about it.
Well if it was leaglaized we would be createing more jobs. But can you really put that on a resumay? Plus the whole STD spreading thing would happen. oh not to mention how pimps treat there prostitutes. makeing them eat little to nothing to stay thin and sometimes abuse them. Yeah bad.
Now that ithink about it, YOUR SELLING YOURSELF!
Yeah no prostituion should'nt be leagalized. And if you say it will go on illeagl anyway then why not make it leagal. I say this.
Then why would'nt we make narcotics leagal? People are gonna sell them anyway right?
How about pirated movies being legal. same thing.
Yeah, thats how it is. Thus my outlook is that no prostitution should NOT be legalized.

Walks off stage.in the background T.N.T by AC/DC is heard.

[LadyHitchhiker]

Oh hell yes. Then maybe my husband would leave me the hell alone.

Ya know, give me a break, I am so done with sexing you up. That's right. I said it. I mean it. Nothing's wrong with me. Maybe something's wrong with YOU wanting it all the time. Give me give me give me. Please, please, please. whine, whine, whine. I can't take it anymore. :biggrin2:

I wish *I* had that problem. LOL.. My husband haranguing me for sex. We have supreme role reversal in my house.

But seriously, I think there is no way that we should ever consider legalizing prostitution unless we could ever get a handle on all those contagious diseases out there. Maybe cure AIDs you know, simple stuff like that.

[devious1]

Not to be snarky, but my definition of class is not spreading your legs, etc... for any stranger with enough money.again, that is fine... but that is your definition of class. what i'm wondering is whatever happened to women's rights? i thought women had the right to choose their own profession? so if a woman makes a choice on her own to become a prostitute or a call girl, that's wrong? and why is it wrong? because it doesn't fit your definition of class? it seems unfair to me for anyone to look down on anyone else because they are in a profession you don't like or don't agree with. a prostitute is a person trying to make a living, same as anyone else... the only difference is that that particular profession happens to be illegal in most places.

as for the exploitation argument i've seen made here... i have to disagree... sure there are many women who are being exploited... they were forced into prostitution and it is not something they want to do and are in essence being exploited by the pimps and the johns who use their services. but if a woman chooses to be a prostitute, who is exploiting her? if anything she is exploiting herself, and again, that is a personal decision. if prostitution were legalized and regulated, the exploitation aspect of it would be removed completely... those in the profession would be women who wanted to be there, who chose that profession. i feel the same way about porn actresses... do you think Jenna Jameson feels exploited? i think she just feels rich, and she seems very proud of the way she made her money. i have no qualms with that.

hopefully no one takes this as an attack on anyone... i just don't agree with a lot of the beliefs being thrown around here and wanted to state my opinion... no flaming please!

[smjohn]

again, that is fine... but that is your definition of class. what i'm wondering is whatever happened to women's rights? i thought women had the right to choose their own profession? so if a woman makes a choice on her own to become a prostitute or a call girl, that's wrong? and why is it wrong? because it doesn't fit your definition of class? it seems unfair to me for anyone to look down on anyone else because they are in a profession you don't like or don't agree with. a prostitute is a person trying to make a living, same as anyone else... the only difference is that that particular profession happens to be illegal in most places.

as for the exploitation argument i've seen made here... i have to disagree... sure there are many women who are being exploited... they were forced into prostitution and it is not something they want to do and are in essence being exploited by the pimps and the johns who use their services. but if a woman chooses to be a prostitute, who is exploiting her? if anything she is exploiting herself, and again, that is a personal decision. if prostitution were legalized and regulated, the exploitation aspect of it would be removed completely... those in the profession would be women who wanted to be there, who chose that profession. i feel the same way about porn actresses... do you think Jenna Jameson feels exploited? i think she just feels rich, and she seems very proud of the way she made her money. i have no qualms with that.

hopefully no one takes this as an attack on anyone... i just don't agree with a lot of the beliefs being thrown around here and wanted to state my opinion... no flaming please!

I have to repeat what Staropeace has already said...If a person chooses to be a hitman as a profession, and he takes pride in killing people (who may or may not be innocent) and does his job well, does this make that person classy? I think not. Making it legal to become a professional hitman does not make this profession noble. As such, making prostitution legal does not make it a noble profession. (Not that I am trying to change your mind or way of thinking, I just don't understand it. Not everything can be rationalized, no matter how hard one tries).

[devious1]

well comparing a hitman to a prostitute is not a very good comparison... if a man picks up a prostitute, or a woman decides she's gonna turn a trick, does anyone die? i can see the correlation based on what i said in my previous comments, but this comparison just doesn't work. prostitution is the illegal act of receiving money for doing something that is perfectly legal to do if you aren't being paid... murder is illegal whether you are getting paid for it or not.

[devious1]

after rereading our comments to each other smjohn... i think there was a misinterpretation somewhere along the lines when i made my original comments to your post about ""high Class" and "prostitution" being a conundrum, i was referring to the individual being classy and not the profession... prostitution is not a classy profession, i will agree with you on that. but does that mean that any person (everyone keeps referring to women, but there are male prostitutes as well) who chooses that profession is of low class? that was my original point. i don't think we should judge a person or assume they can't be of very high class because of the profession they choose. class is determined by how a person carries themselves, not by what their job title is. at leas not in my opinion.

[smjohn]

Again, Not everything can be rationalized, no matter how hard one tries.

[smjohn]

well comparing a hitman to a prostitute is not a very good comparison... if a man picks up a prostitute, or a woman decides she's gonna turn a trick, does anyone die? i can see the correlation based on what i said in my previous comments, but this comparison just doesn't work. prostitution is the illegal act of receiving money for doing something that is perfectly legal to do if you aren't being paid... murder is illegal whether you are getting paid for it or not.

If the prostitute does not disclose STD's, yes, someone can innocently die.

[JRLauer]

If prostitution were to be legalized, I know it would save me a lot of money from not having to be bailed out of jail every other night. My wife would like it too seeing as how she would'nt have to come down to the police station anymore and bail me out. :wink2:

[devious1]

If the prostitute does not disclose STD's, yes, someone can innocently die.great point. it's a good thing you brought that up, because that kind of proves the argument for legalization of prostitution... if it is legalized and regulated, the spread of disease would decrease rapidly, because all the brothels would be legally obligated to have their employees tested for STDs on a regular basis. the way it is now, with no regulation whatsoever, that doesn't happen, so you are right with your point. which is why it's a great reason to legalize it in my opinion.

[LadyHitchhiker]

Actually, at this point in the game, I don't see that the profession of a hitman and a prostitute are all that different. Either can end in death. Sure, syphillis or aids will take longer than a poison or a bullet to the head, but they are deaths just the same. And sure, sex is far more pleasurable than being shot at or choked to death, but it's dead just the same, or at least the risk of death, a slow icky death. The risk of death to me isn't sexy or fun at all. There are people who thrive on it, like these airplane jumpers and stuff, but that's totally not me.

So neither of these "professions" are honorable at this point because they take the risk of taking human lives.

There I waxed all philosophical for the day.

I like sex more than the average next person, and I must reiterate, again, if it weren't for all the nasty diseases - which is why the very true reason besides religious convictions that I think people truly think sex is icky - prostitution wouldn't bother me at all. It would revolutionize the world! But I can see how some people would think it would objectify women, but at the same time, I understand how it could empower women. It's weird how contradictory sex is. :lol:

[smjohn]

after rereading our comments to each other smjohn... i think there was a misinterpretation somewhere along the lines when i made my original comments to your post about ""high Class" and "prostitution" being a conundrum, i was referring to the individual being classy and not the profession... prostitution is not a classy profession, i will agree with you on that. but does that mean that any person (everyone keeps referring to women, but there are male prostitutes as well) who chooses that profession is of low class? that was my original point. i don't think we should judge a person or assume they can't be of very high class because of the profession they choose. class is determined by how a person carries themselves, not by what their job title is. at leas not in my opinion.

Actually, IMHO, how you carry yourself and the choices you make do determine your class. I don't find male prostitutes any classier than female. Why would a "high class" person choose a "low class" occupation?

[devious1]

ok... so when you see a garbageman, do you assume that person must be of low class because he works around garbage all day? garbage isn't classy, right? so anyone who is a garbageman must be a low class person. how about a bus driver? is it classy to be someone else's driver? i've never thought so... so bus drivers are low class too. cab drivers as well. i drive a transport van for handicapped/disabled persons... so i drive people around all day. am i low class because of that? do you see the point i'm getting at? you can have a job that isn't a classy profession and still be a classy person.

why would a high class person choose a low class occupation? well again, that comes down to your definition of class. you see prostitution as low class... but i guarantee the women who work in The Bunny Ranch brothel in Nevada don't see themselves as classless, even if you do.

[boogerb53]

I don't know about the taxation thing with prostitution since it's a service, not a product, and services aren't generally taxed, right? I guess each trick could come with a really expensive condom, and THAT could be taxed.

In the state of Arkansas, services are taxed. This was put in effect July of 2004.

[LadyHitchhiker]

I worked in fast food for 7 years. TONS of people treated me like I was a second-hand citizen because I was working in fast food (like I wasn't smart enough to do anything else), but it was something I was great at - which is not what most of the other people that I worked with were able to say - and sure I may not have looked or smelled classy by the end of the day - what with all the greasiness and sweatiness and all - but I was doing a job, a good job.

My oldest sister repeatedly asked me through my career in fast food when I was going to get a real job. I often wondered when she was going to get a real personality. I figure if you pay in taxes, then you're working a real job, at least by government standards. Just because *I* didn't go to school for 8 years like she did, doesn't mean that the occupations I take up are any less important or any less valid.

As for my opinion of garbagemen? They rock! They do a very important service for all our communities, get very little thanks, and get paid very well. :D Yay for garbagemen!!!! er people... I don't know what the pc title for them is! LOL

[boogerb53]

I agree with devious. It's the individual-not the profession that makes you who you are. Someone has to work at the sewage plant. Someone has to drive the gargabe trucks. Someone has to wipe the bee-hind of your grandfather in the nursing home. All not so desirable professions, yet you cannot judge the human being behind the job BECAUSE of the job. I do not advocate prostitutes. I do not advocate drug (pot) use. But if they were if not leagal, at least decrimilized, then it could be regulated, taxed, taken out of the hands of the mafia and maybe have a less sordid reputation.

[Moderator]

Yay for garbagemen!!!! er people... I don't know what the pc title for them is! LOL


I believe that would be sanitation engineers or is that just for janitors? :smile2:

[LadyHitchhiker]

I believe that would be sanitation engineers or is that just for janitors? :smile2:

Garbage recquistioners?

Garbage redistributors?

I don't know. LOL

[smjohn]

ok... so when you see a garbageman, do you assume that person must be of low class because he works around garbage all day? garbage isn't classy, right? so anyone who is a garbageman must be a low class person. how about a bus driver? is it classy to be someone else's driver? i've never thought so... so bus drivers are low class too. cab drivers as well. i drive a transport van for handicapped/disabled persons... so i drive people around all day. am i low class because of that? do you see the point i'm getting at? you can have a job that isn't a classy profession and still be a classy person.

why would a high class person choose a low class occupation? well again, that comes down to your definition of class. you see prostitution as low class... but i guarantee the women who work in The Bunny Ranch brothel in Nevada don't see themselves as classless, even if you do.

Again, I'm not trying to change your mind. I absolutely don't see any class in selling your body to a stranger. How people who do that for a living see themselves is up to them. I don't see anything classless about being a garbage man or transportation driver. You are helping people in those professions that cannot help themselves and cleaning up. That really does compare apples to oranges. Apparenlty we have a very large difference of opinion on exactly what "class" is.

[LadyHitchhiker]

I work currently at a gas station and a bookstore.

At the gas station I am treated most of the time like someone low class. Like anybody can do my job (it requires tons of multi-tasking and very little pay) - give them a day being a security camera for drive offs, being a security person by checking ids, keeping up with the coffee they're choking down, counting lottery tickets every two hours, stocking, doing cleaning jobs (like bathrooms, garbage, etc.,.) and still be up there at the register when they're ready to check out. I have money literally thrown at me because a lot of them don't think that I am important enough to treat with respect. I have people scream at me because I card them. I have people scream at me because THEY do not know how to work the pumps. I don't look forward to going into the job anymore but I need it. It's hard to find good paying jobs in my area. And I still keep a smile on my face and am nice to my customers!

On the other hand when I work at the bookstore they expect the WORLD of me. They expect that I have time to read ALL the books on the shelves, and therefore know all the answers to all their questions about all books now and in the past (including what color a book is that was put out 30 years ago). Also, since we have a tobacco counter which features pipes, cigars, roll your own tobacco, I am expected to know what flavor all the tobacco products are that we have and their differences. LOL. I absolutely love the bookstore job and it's infinitely better but THAT can be frustrating too, being expected so much of. :D But at least I love that job and the books are relevant completely to my interests. But so far no one has yelled at me here! :D

It is strange how people look at other people who do a job. There are tons of jobs where people are NOT treated like they are intelligent or that they have other interests. That their job is their whole existence. That we live to work, instead of work to live. I imagine the same is true for prostitution.

I don't know if I could ever be a prostitute but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be good at it! ;) :P

[Anni M]

I just can't quite wrap my head around "High Class" and "Prostitution" being anything but a conundrum.:biggrin2:
It's funny, but I do see class differences in prostitution. It IS all the same job, but If I were to sell my body for $$, (GAWD, that is a scary thought--to the buyer!!!) I'd rather do it as a mannerly free agent with lotsa money and living in a penthouse like Holly GoLightly, than from slinking around a street corner for an abusive pimp!! :eyebrow::smile2:

[Tery]

Actually, in the world of prostitution, there is a "high class" designation. An Escort is one name for a high class prostitute (there are escorts who are not hookers, tho). Ladies who work the streets are the lower end of that spectrum. It's not fair, it's not nice but it's true.

Legalization would eliminate that lower class. If all women were housed in a brothel, nobody has to walk the streets or rely on a pimp.

[smjohn]

Actually, in the world of prostitution, there is a "high class" designation. An Escort is one name for a high class prostitute (there are escorts who are not hookers, tho). Ladies who work the streets are the lower end of that spectrum. It's not fair, it's not nice but it's true.

Legalization would eliminate that lower class. If all women were housed in a brothel, nobody has to walk the streets or rely on a pimp.

Fortunately, I don't live in that world. Honestly, I think I'm done debating what a classy thing prostitution is.

[babyface]

Whether legal or not - for sure I cringe to imagine ma daughter, son or someone I care deeply for involved in it. So to hell with long days and pleasant nights, its should not be legalised.

[Tery]

Fortunately, I don't live in that world. Honestly, I think I'm done debating what a classy thing prostitution is.

Did I say it was classy? No. I was merely pointing out that prostitution, like many other jobs, has a class system.

I don't think it's a classy career. But for some women it's the only one they have available. So, let's please make it safer for everyone concerned.

[tillyn]

Not legal in Ont. but in BC. Lots of money spent trying to get the sellers. I think money could be put to better use else where.

I was actually commenting on the marijuana question, should it be legalized. Some how this got to prostitution . Not legal anywhere that i know in Canada.