Death penalty

[Guershom]

Has Stephen ever expressed his stance on death penalty and if so what is it ?

[pepino]

Maybe we could give our own opinions on this matter. I'll jump right in and say that it seems to be a necessary evil at times. This is probably not the popular view on this board, but there are people out there who are just plain bad. What do you do with those people?

[Liselle]

I'm against it because I would want to know why people are bad, were they born bad (don't believe that myself) or is it circumstance and development blip.

I just love to try and get inside these peoples heads and yes that does make me sound ever so slightly strange........but someones gotta do it.

Also against it because if there has been a miscarriage of justice unfortunately you can't bring back people from the dead.

[Srbo]

Absolutely AGAINST it.

By killing them, we become them.

[staropeace]

This may seem surprising cause I am a Canadian but I do agree with the death penalty.

[poisonbat]

ooh, one of those touchy subjects. Well I have no idea how uncle Steve feels about this, but I for one believe in it. Why do we keep mass murderers, serial killers, and child molesters alive for the rest of their lives? Life without the possibility of parole is really a death penalty dragged out over a lifetime. Whoever receives this sentence is sentenced to death in prison. Many prisoners have much more privileges than the poor. Cable TV, 3 hot meals a day, showers, a bed to sleep in, a gym to work out in etc. They also are provided with medical, dental and vision care. So many people do not have these luxuries. The homeless that have not broken the law struggle for a meal, shiver in the cold, sleep in boxes on the street and rarely ever get a hot shower. This seems odd to me. We have a large population of homeless Veterans in my area, and this tugs at my heart strings. Why does someone who viciously murdered and molested a child live out there lives with only one restriction, they can not leave, but our homeless Vets who have fought our wars live on the streets? Do you know that it is a LAW that all prisons have cable TV? I think the priorities need to change. Quit with the life without parole and start implementing the death penalty. Quit ignoring the heroes and coddling the criminals. :bat: Please no flaming arrows, this is just my opinion.

[hipmamajen]

Oh man, I'm all over this. It's interesting to me, and I like to hear everyone's reasons for and against.

[Sugar Marie]

ooh, one of those touchy subjects. Well I have no idea how uncle Steve feels about this, but I for one believe in it. Why do we keep mass murderers, serial killers, and child molesters alive for the rest of their lives? Life without the possibility of parole is really a death penalty dragged out over a lifetime. Whoever receives this sentence is sentenced to death in prison. Many prisoners have much more privileges than the poor. Cable TV, 3 hot meals a day, showers, a bed to sleep in, a gym to work out in etc. They also are provided with medical, dental and vision care. So many people do not have these luxuries. The homeless that have not broken the law struggle for a meal, shiver in the cold, sleep in boxes on the street and rarely ever get a hot shower. This seems odd to me. We have a large population of homeless Veterans in my area, and this tugs at my heart strings. Why does someone who viciously murdered and molested a child live out there lives with only one restriction, they can not leave, but our homeless Vets who have fought our wars live on the streets? Do you know that it is a LAW that all prisons have cable TV? I think the priorities need to change. Quit with the life without parole and start implementing the death penalty. Quit ignoring the heroes and coddling the criminals. :bat: Please no flaming arrows, this is just my opinion.

I'm not exactly sure where I stand on the death penalty, but I can't argue w/your logic poisonbat.

[Ubasti]

I am for the death penalty as long as there is proof that the person did commit the crime. I think too many crimes go unpunished or not punished harshly enough in this country. There are serial killers who've killed hundreds of people sitting on death row living off our tax money. I understand that a lot of the people who kill have ... issues that generally go un treated and I don't think that it's fair that they should have to die because they were ignored by the system, but in some cases you cannot rehabilitate a lot of these people. If they have no chance of perole and no chance of living a "normal" life then aren't they suffering more by living in prison? Isn't the punishment supposet to fit the crime?

[rjt65]

I approve---- but with stringent definitive guilt.... intent to kill, some other definitive proofs and a better method to go from start to finish.....

And PBAT--I agree with u 150% ironic how we treat our prisoners versus others... IMO 24 hour lockdown, no TV, etc (Iam talking for the hardened criminals here not all in jail)... I had a few friends that were correction officers...the stories i have heard --egads...but that is another hot thread to start--

[devious1]

hmmm... the death penalty. well i'm a believer in it i have to say. if the punishment fits the crime, and there is indisputable evidence of a person's guilt in a capital crime, then i have no problem with it... however there is always a flip side... for every John Wayne Gacy or Ted Bundy that is executed, there is an Andrea Yates (and although she was never given a death sentence, i was so glad when they overturned her original sentence and found her not guilty... the woman was clearly insane, she should never have been sentenced to prison in the first place), or a similar situation where the lines are not firmly drawn in the sand. there needs to be more done to ensure that innocent people aren't executed for crimes they didn't commit, but overall i have no beef with the death penalty... sometimes i wish they would re-instate it here in Canada.

[FlakeNoir]

ooh, one of those touchy subjects. Well I have no idea how uncle Steve feels about this, but I for one believe in it. Why do we keep mass murderers, serial killers, and child molesters alive for the rest of their lives? Life without the possibility of parole is really a death penalty dragged out over a lifetime. Whoever receives this sentence is sentenced to death in prison. Many prisoners have much more privileges than the poor. Cable TV, 3 hot meals a day, showers, a bed to sleep in, a gym to work out in etc. They also are provided with medical, dental and vision care. So many people do not have these luxuries. The homeless that have not broken the law struggle for a meal, shiver in the cold, sleep in boxes on the street and rarely ever get a hot shower. This seems odd to me. We have a large population of homeless Veterans in my area, and this tugs at my heart strings. Why does someone who viciously murdered and molested a child live out there lives with only one restriction, they can not leave, but our homeless Vets who have fought our wars live on the streets? Do you know that it is a LAW that all prisons have cable TV? I think the priorities need to change. Quit with the life without parole and start implementing the death penalty. Quit ignoring the heroes and coddling the criminals. :bat: Please no flaming arrows, this is just my opinion.

I have always been against the death penalty, but you have some very strong and valid points there, poisonbat. Well spoken. :smile2:
My biggest problem with it (the death penalty) is the risk of taking an innocent life in the case/s of the wrongly accused. I just can't get past that one.

[Todash]

There are two separate issues here.

1. Can a person commit a crime that has as its proper punishment the forfeiture of that person's life? Yes, I think so.

2. Is society capable of correctly determining who those people are? Considering that 17 people have been freed from death row in the US so far, exonerated by DNA evidence, I would have to say no. Seventeen people freed, and how many more went to their graves innocent? No one knows. When an individual kills an innocent person, we call that murder and punish accordingly. When the state kills an innocent person, there are no repercussions. "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice."

[smjohn]

Maybe we could give our own opinions on this matter. I'll jump right in and say that it seems to be a necessary evil at times. This is probably not the popular view on this board, but there are people out there who are just plain bad. What do you do with those people?

I agree with you. I certainly don't my hard earned taxpayer $ on them. Child abusers/molesters cannot be rehabilitated. They will always be abusers. There is no reason whatsoever why we should have to pay for their 3 squares a day and medical bills while people who do not hurt others are struggling to keep food on the table and don't go to the doctor when needed because they can't afford it.

[mudpuppy]

Gah! This is too tough. Part of me feels that if you kill a killer then you too are a killer, but I know there are gradations of evil, and that to preserve society and safety some folks just shouldn't be here. I hate all of the money that goes to taking care of murderers who will never be reformed, and don't even want to be reformed. But then I consider the vast lifeless stretches of the universe and about how precious life is and it seems like a crime to end any life. In the end I am glad I don't have to make the decision. I just think it we do have such a penalty then it should be absolutely humane.

[Kim L.]

My biggest problem with it (the death penalty) is the risk of taking an innocent life in the case/s of the wrongly accused. I just can't get past that one.

I'm with you, Flake.

[CorbinKale]

http://www.stephenking.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4939

We already did this discussion.

[Mr Nobody]

Well, here in the UK we binned the death penalty and now have people being killed for refusing to hand over a bottle of cheap plonk. Our prisons are full to the point where criminals are getting early releases, and I'm not talking petty stuff here, I'm talking rapists, child molesters and murderers getting released after serving (in some cases) around half their sentence - and murder only seems to get about 8 years anyway. It is no deterrent at all, while the possibility of being securely convicted using the latest methods and facing the death penalty surely would be.
And that's the thing: miscarriages of justice occurred in the past, but now we really can convict someone of a crime and say their guilt is beyond reasonable doubt. So I'd say keep the death penalty, but use it only on cases where there is 100% certainty.
We've all heard of cases where the evidence has seemed a little dubious, and heard of those where proof of guilt is cast-iron. In the latter cases, for murder, the murderer should forfeit his/her life. After all, they have deprived an person (or more than one) of their life, they know they're breaking the law when they do it, so...there you go.
Rapists and child molesters should be neutered, chemically or otherwise, with repeat offenders ultimately facing the death penalty.

[interplanetjanet]

I always thought I was against it UNTIL I had children. Now...anyone that is convicted of violent crimes against children or vulnerable adults should be sent to death immediately. The same goes for serial killers. I don't believe they can be reformed.

[Wylde06]

I agree with the Death Penalty, as long as there is enough evidence that the person commited the crime. And with what poisonbat said, why should these criminals live a "comfortable" life in prison, while there are others who are forced to live, and struggle, on the street. If the punishment fits the crime, its fine with me.

[Patricia A]

I keep being lured back into these threads that I know I'm gonna need Rolaids for.
When will I learn! :biggrin2:

[JohnDalglish]

Absolutely AGAINST it.

By killing them, we become them.

Hi,

AWSS.

Long days and pleasant nights

[SKfan2006]

the death penalty should only go to those who feel no remorse for their crime. i wouldn't want someone who accidently killed someone who feels remorse for it to get killed. and personally i've never liked the death penalty at all.

[MadamMack]

There are two separate issues here.

1. Can a person commit a crime that has as its proper punishment the forfeiture of that person's life? Yes, I think so.

2. Is society capable of correctly determining who those people are? Considering that 17 people have been freed from death row in the US so far, exonerated by DNA evidence, I would have to say no. Seventeen people freed, and how many more went to their graves innocent? No one knows. When an individual kills an innocent person, we call that murder and punish accordingly. When the state kills an innocent person, there are no repercussions. "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice."

Well said Todash. Very well said indeed.

[carnygal]

I agree w/ the death penalty...but you have to make sure they did it 100%! If we could take out more of the "trash" then our hard tax earned dollars could help those people poisonbat was talking about! And about being more Humane? I sometimes feel that they should bring back Ol Sparky! A shot and off to la la land is too nice for some of these people as far as I'm concerned! What comes around goes around! JMHO

[BlackThorn]

I would love to work in a kennel. I've always thought that. But a great part of my wanting to work in a kennel, is to be the guy who handled the animals that were abused, starved, cut, kicked. The ones that were never taught to socialize at all, with other animals or other people. I'd love to be given the chance to pour myself into these animals, and help work with and decide if they could ever be let into society again. As soon as I and the higher ups there deemed that the animal could not be saved, that he would never live without attacking some other animal, or it's owner, then we would begin the process of having the animal put down.

Sure, somebody could house these animals, no matter how abused they were. We could find a way to take care of them, only it would require endless man hours, safety precautions, and literally tons of money over the course of the rest of that animals life to keep it going. I bet nobody had to guess too hard at my stance on this one... Euthanasia means the pain stops for both sides. It might not be the animals fault, but even if it did just 'happen to be born insane', why should we really spend so much effort on these lost ones? Doesn't that mean they should still be put down too?

There was a very young adult that was given life in jail here. He was late in his seventeenth year, when he committed a 'thril killing'. He wanted to just kill someone or something, because of his stance on satanism. The judge noted as he read his sentence to him, that he had planned on killing someone else, but since the other girl wasn't available, he grabbed a 12 year old who babysat, and choked her to death slowly, over the course of five or so minutes. He then masturbated on to her chest when she was dead.

I absolutely loved the way the judge sentenced him. The mandatory sentence for this type of crime was 30 to life. He first explained that usually, young adults have the best chance for rehabilitation. But he went on to say, that since this was a 'thrill killing', and since the guy actually believed what he explained satanism to be to the courts on his trial, (that God wants hell, it's his fault, so do whatever floats your own boat really, and it's just fine), that there was honestly no real chance for any type of rehabilitation. A thrill killing means, just killing for no purpose what so ever other than self reification. And that's why the judge explained he was going to be sent to Thomaston, where all the evil and ugly and disgusting creatures go, till the day he died...

We don't have the death penalty in the state of Maine. And if we did, I don't think it would be fair in the least, to let someone pass on to the next life peacefully, instead of even making them live with the guilt of what they've done. Honestly, the angel of death has a lot more deserving individuals to be dealing with over these scumbags.

And sure, jail isn't that bad... you have order, control. They no longer need to think at all, they get everything handed to them. Hell, I know about three people I grew up with that are actually comfortable in jail, and will eventually be there for life. They don't get three squares on the outside, much less someone coming to their room to hand it to them.

But they can also never see a sunset again, be a part of a rainstorm, or visit their loved ones when they're sick. Maybe they don't even like those things anyway, but they'll be shut off from that chance ever again once they cross that line. And believe me, if you go to jail, and you were convicted of child molestation, you'll get it a lot worse then Loyd Henreid did in the yard when he was first brought in. Jefferey Dahlmer was sentenced to life, I believe, and some guy did the world a favor by shoving a mop handle so far up his ass it ruptured him and he died right there in jail. But I sure as hell wouldn't have tried to keep JD alive, or rehab him. He says he made it up with God by finding Jesus in the end, and that's fine. But I still think he should have been killed. If you understood what you were doing, you should suffer for a long time. But if you were just damaged in the head, eating peoples flesh and injecting acid into peoples brains to make them into living sex slave zombies, then yeah, they don't deserve to breathe the same air as my children, and that sort of punishment wouldn't solve anything anyway.

As far as King believes? I doubt you'll get him to say it, but I'd figure, since he's an author and therefore kind of an agent of chaos in that he needs to be able to see in all directions... well, I'm sure he's not against having them put down.

I mean, this is the cat that said he usually kills his characters off because he can't think of anything else to do with them. I doubt he'll be trying to abolish this type of euthanasia any time soon.

[Anni M]

My object all sublime I shall achieve in time-- To let the punishment fit the crime, the punishment fit the crime William S Gilbert, The Mikado

[O'Hara]

I am personally for the death penalty. I agree with poisonbat 100%. There is no reason to let those people live, especially when they receive all the amenities that many people don't have. How many homeless or low-income families are getting by with barely enough to sustain themselves? How many can't afford health-insurance? The list could go on until I wear myself out, and even then I wouldn't be able to name everything. I believe that we have much better things to spend our tax dollars on. That money could go toward bringing school budgets back up. Here in FL we've had massive spending cuts, including cuts in salaries for school teachers, less money for text books, less classes available, less programs to enrich our children. . . I have a kid sister who is desperately trying to get into a school in another country from the one we live in. Why? The high school she would go to here offers nothing for her. No advanced classes, many teachers have been fired/laid-off, the school is in a bad part of town, and this list goes on. When we petitioned to have her transferred, they said no. Again, why? They want the meager $4,000 she would bring. They'd basically put her in a computer lab and make her do her classes online. She'd have no one to help her if it came down to it, unless we hired a tutor. But I digress.

It literally makes me sick when I think about how much we pay to prisons. It's disgusting. I'm a firm believer that these people cannot reform. It's like a drug for them. A drug addict may reform and get off the substance, but who's to stop him if temptation is placed back in his path? I don't think it's fair to let criminals live, especially if there's a chance for parole and reintering society. That places numerous innocent people at risk. I think it's better to kill the one than to let that one kill/rape/molest 2? 5? 10? others? They're in prison for a reason, and if the crime is that violent, let them take their just deserts.

Besides, if the penalty is that high, and people know it's going to be enforced, it goes to reason that crime rates would drop. Many commit the crime because they know they'll be sentenced to life with possibility of parole after so many years. Or they know the sentence just isn't that harsh to begin with, so why not take that chance?

[Kim L.]

Hand over the Rolaids, Pat. :smile2:

[S Mcleod]

The Death penalty.It's the best course.No need for worries of about repeat offenders.The only problem with the death penalty.Is it's not used enough.It should be mandatory in All states and countries.For instance.
Some tough guy "gang" beats a store clerk to near death.Don't let them off because some slick lawyer tells you they had a bad childhood.It's no excuse at all.
Put them on trial.And then put them to Death.Feeding and houseing monsters for the rest of there lives on our tax dollars is the injustice.
-S Mcleod

[smjohn]

The Death penalty.It's the best course.No need for worries of about repeat offenders.The only problem with the death penalty.Is it's not used enough.It should be mandatory in All states and countries.For instance.
Some tough guy "gang" beats a store clerk to near death.Don't let them off because some slick lawyer tells you they had a bad childhood.It's no excuse at all.
Put them on trial.And then put them to Death.Feeding and houseing monsters for the rest of there lives on our tax dollars is the injustice.
-S Mcleod

Exactly. A bad childhood is no excuse for criminal behavior, it's a cop out. Most people have hard childhood's. Let's face it, no new parent comes with a handbook. Most do the best we can as parents and some parents don't. As adults we have choices. Making a bad choice should not be blamed on a bad childhood because regardless of one's life, most still know right from wrong.

[staropeace]

We seem to have alot of patience with offenders here in Canada....we tend to forgive them for crimes they committ against other people. What kind of ego is that then? It is not our place to forgive...that is up to the victims and/ or their families.

All kinds of laws to protect the idiots who reach for any mental pathology or feeble excuse they can find to excuse themselves from taking ownership or their actions. I dont buy it.

This is a case in point. Now tell me if my country gives a flying feck about the victims. Yes I am mad about it...........and I am not one bit PC,most of the time anymore.

We worry about being PC and we no longer teach our children manners anymore....no wonder there is so much crime here in my city now....grrrrrrrr...

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Alberta/2009/01/29/8195116.html

[CorbinKale]

http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/us/2009/01/26/D95V802O1_exonerated_inmates/index.html

The most recent example of why I am against the death penalty.

[Tery]

I'm with Flakey and Kim...

And Achmed has a good point. I'd need a smoking gun before I could be okay with it.

But I will say that I do not agree with celebrating when someone is put to death. We should never be happy at any life being wasted. Let them pass through the veil and let God/dess heal the sickness in their soul.

[PatInTheHat]

Killer topic:laugh:...:oh:...was that in bad taste:blush:?
(I kill myself sometimes:rofl:)

Speaking of bad taste...or tasting bad as the case might be......
http://www.deadmaneating.com/index.htm
Kinda interesting, well it is to me anyway.


Ok, on with the topic and this is hard for me as I've never really talked about it...and this ain't got no yucks.

I could go on about all manner of thoughts on this subject and I admit a fair amount of confliction.
I've known a few murder victims and two were extremely close.
Both were young women in the beginning of their lives.
One was killed by her boyfriend in their home and the other was murdered and her body dumped in a rural area in a wooded area on the side of the road, miles away from her home (her remains were not found for a couple of months) by what is suspected to be a possible serial klller (today, serial killers weren't really thought of that way back then).
She was one of my best friends, like a little sister, I loved her dearly and it was, and still is, one of the worse and most painful things I've ever felt.
I was even questioned, not unlike the interogations on a tv program that used to be on, called Homocide: Life On the Street...it was pretty intense!

Would I like to see her murderer put to death?
You bet, I'd pull the lever, plundge the needle, pull the trigger myself in a heartbeat!
Do I want justice?
Hell No...I want a reckoning yes, but it's revenge I crave because it's personal...very very personal!

Let's not mistake what our state sanctioned murder (ok, not murder? Homocide then...it's what they put on the executed's death certificate) is and what it ain't, it ain't justice we want, it's revenge pure and simple.

We can't allow that in our society of laws, and that's why the victims loved ones aren't permitted to pull that lever themselves.
But it's revenge by proxy none the less and justice ain't got nothing to do with it!

My confliction is in that I don't believe in any kind of killing and neither did my friend, who was a truly gentle soul...but I could, even thirty years later the anger is hot.

If they were to catch, convict and sentence the bastard to death, fine.
However my thinking is, if we as a society are going to do this, let's stop being cowards about it!
We're are cowards, what with this don't look at it, don't really think about it, let the state do our dirty work for us without any real thought about it, maybe we'll see a blip on the news attitude.
We've sanitized it and put it behind a curtain and thick glass, made it like another day at work...and this is killing another human being.
Here in Kentucky if I'm not mistaken, was the sight of the last public execution, a hanging.
So my thinking is, if public hangings not ok, then the death penalty isn't either!
We can either watch with our very own eye's and decide for ourselves if that's what we want, each and every time a condemend man walks (or dragged/carried kicking and screaming/begging) his last steps.

We should have to hear him ask for redemption and beg for forgivness, shout his innocence, or scream his diatribes and profanities.
We all should hear his LAST words...all of them!
Then we need to see him cry and bawl or go totally insane just before the moment he knows it's really and truly going to happen.
This is a man's life we're taking, it's all there is, no going back, no matter what he's done and just maybe and quite possibly for something he didn't do!
We as a society should have to look him in the directly in the eye and be able to say to him we're sure, it's what we want & then be able to say, So Be It.
Then watch as he convulses, kicks and soils himself until he's no more.

I'm fully capable of doing all that, if I was absolutely positive (that's often said...tough one huh?).
I could do that to one man...one!
But it's personal, very...and it makes me feel just awful.

[S Mcleod]

Amen smjohn.
-S Mcleod

[smjohn]

We seem to have alot of patience with offenders here in Canada....we tend to forgive them for crimes they committ against other people. What kind of ego is that then? It is not our place to forgive...that is up to the victims and/ or their families.

All kinds of laws to protect the idiots who reach for any mental pathology or feeble excuse they can find to excuse themselves from taking ownership or their actions. I dont buy it.

This is a case in point. Now tell me if my country gives a flying feck about the victims. Yes I am mad about it...........and I am not one bit PC,most of the time anymore.

We worry about being PC and we no longer teach our children manners anymore....no wonder there is so much crime here in my city now....grrrrrrrr...

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Alberta/2009/01/29/8195116.html

This is the exact same thing happening here.

[Kim L.]

I'm with Flakey and Kim...

And Achmed has a good point. I'd need a smoking gun before I could be okay with it.

But I will say that I do not agree with celebrating when someone is put to death. We should never be happy at any life being wasted. Let them pass through the veil and let God/dess heal the sickness in their soul.

Amen, Tery.

[Anni M]

Oh jeebus, did I ever tell anyone my husband proposed to me the day Jeffery Dalhmer was bludgeoned to death in prison? Yep, that's a date I'll never forget!! :biggrin2:

maybe he was celebratin'!! :laugh:

[lilydust76]

What a tricky subject!
When I was in high school debate, my best friend and I had to debate the death penalty, me for and him against. He was initially for the death penalty, until he started researching it. My main problem against it is that it is not a deterrent for crime, as logical people would think. You know, that whole 'it can't happen to me' attitude. I also agree that the thought of killing someone innocent is horrible.
But, some of these scumbags, quite frankly, don't deserve to live. It should appease, at least somewhat, that they are killed so much more humanely than the innocents whose lives were viciously stolen from them. A much more fitting punishment would be to let the parents/children of the victims have some quality alone time with them.....
I would imagine people's opinions would change if they, or someone they loved, were a victim, and they saw firsthand the havoc these creatures have wreaked..

[Todash]

I would imagine people's opinions would change if they, or someone they loved, were a victim, and they saw firsthand the havoc these creatures have wreaked..I think you are right. But I also think that if you were for the death penalty, being arrested, tried, and convicted for a capital crime you did not commit might change your mind as well.

[ihavepromisestokeep]

I was lucky enough to be there at the Lisey's reading and Q&A session in London a couple of years ago and this is one of the questions asked of Mr King. A question that I submitted to The Times newspaper was also asked, but that's another story. I believe that you can still get this as a podcast if you want the full transcript.

As far as I can remember, Mr King was against the death penalty, except in extreme cases. I believe he used The BTK killer as an example of someone so evil that they did not deserve to live.

[Srbo]

I was lucky enough to be there at the Lisey's reading and Q&A session in London a couple of years ago and this is one of the questions asked of Mr King. A question that I submitted to The Times newspaper was also asked, but that's another story. I believe that you can still get this as a podcast if you want the full transcript.

As far as I can remember, Mr King was against the death penalty, except in extreme cases. I believe he used The BTK killer as an example of someone so evil that they did not deserve to live.


The BTK killer ?

Who was that ?

Thanks.

[staropeace]

This happened in Canada....a mother strangled her daughter with a piece of twine cause her boyfriend didnt want kids....
I may sound cruel and cold......but I do hope she is killed in prison...cause she has no right to live on the face of this earth.....just my opinion.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090130/national/boudreau_killing

[Todash]

The BTK killer ?

Who was that ?

Thanks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rader

BTK stands for "bind, torture, kill." His MO.

[Guershom]

http://www.stephenking.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4939

We already did this discussion.

Nope : my question concerned Stephen King, not the honourable members of the MB.

But since many gave their opinion, let me give mine : I'm against death penalty but if it is to be done, the person who pushes the button (or fires the shotgun, or opens the trap...) should be one of the jurors - drawn by lot - who voted for the death and all the other jurors who agreed should be present in the room. No exception : if no juror agrees to do the bloody job or one of those who condemned to death isn't there, the guy lives. If you want to be a state murderer, assume it !

[Guershom]

I was lucky enough to be there at the Lisey's reading and Q&A session in London a couple of years ago and this is one of the questions asked of Mr King. A question that I submitted to The Times newspaper was also asked, but that's another story. I believe that you can still get this as a podcast if you want the full transcript.

As far as I can remember, Mr King was against the death penalty, except in extreme cases. I believe he used The BTK killer as an example of someone so evil that they did not deserve to live.


Sorry to be a niggler, but if you are "against death penalty, except in extreme cases", you are for death penalty...

(and same question as Srbo : what is "BTK" ?)

[Matticus]

I would personally consider it my responsibility to do just that. Not easy, but I would do it.

A person needs to be able to stand by their convictions.

[dsurrett]

I'm in favor of the death penalty for extreme cases. I used to be in favor of it for a wide variety of things, but have mellowed a little through the years.

[smjohn]

This happened in Canada....a mother strangled her daughter with a piece of twine cause her boyfriend didnt want kids....
I may sound cruel and cold......but I do hope she is killed in prison...cause she has no right to live on the face of this earth.....just my opinion.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090130/national/boudreau_killing

Don't baby killers, especially momma's get treated the same way as child molesters in prison?

[Todash]

Sorry to be a niggler, but if you are "against death penalty, except in extreme cases", you are for death penalty...

(and same question as Srbo : what is "BTK" ?)
True, but admitting there is a small percentage of evil that should just be stamped out is not the same as the "fry 'em all and let God sort 'em out" attitude that some people (*cough* Texas *cough*) have.

[brownmouse]

The Death penalty.It's the best course.No need for worries of about repeat offenders.The only problem with the death penalty.Is it's not used enough.It should be mandatory in All states and countries.For instance.
Some tough guy "gang" beats a store clerk to near death.Don't let them off because some slick lawyer tells you they had a bad childhood.It's no excuse at all.
Put them on trial.And then put them to Death.Feeding and houseing monsters for the rest of there lives on our tax dollars is the injustice.
-S Mcleod

I don't mean to be confrontational but do you really think the gang members are the ones getting away with murder or perhaps it is more likely the rich guy(OJ Simpson comes to mind) that has the advantage-That right there is one of my many reasons for being against the death penalty- we just don't have equal representation for alleged criminals.

[ihavepromisestokeep]

Sorry to be a niggler, but if you are "against death penalty, except in extreme cases", you are for death penalty...

(and same question as Srbo : what is "BTK" ?)

That's okay, but you will find I didn't give my opinion, just what I remember from a Stephen King reading I went to a couple of years ago. I am not saying those were his exact words, but I'm sure the podcast is still available. Try The Times newspaper.

As for BTK, what Todash said.

[Guershom]

That's okay, but you will find I didn't give my opinion, just what I remember from a Stephen King reading I went to a couple of years ago. I am not saying those were his exact words, but I'm sure the podcast is still available. Try The Times newspaper.

As for BTK, what Todash said.

No worries, Ihavepromisestokeep, I had well understood you referred to a Stephen King reading and thanks for the information. My "you" was a general one... I think it's more natural and sincere a statement saying "I'm for death penalty 'cause I think some bastards just shouldn't be allowed to live", like Clint Eastwood did for example (referring as an example to a particularly violent racist killing in the South) and that didn't prevent him from directing at least two great movies showing the horror of death penalty (True Crime, The Changeling) rather than "I'm against death penalty except in extreme cases" which is kinda sitting on the fence and not taking responsibilities...(and then what is an "extreme case" exactly ? Definitions will differ...)

[tempest]

I against the death penalty because I think the courts, police, and "system" has proven to many times in the past to be corrupt. As for lack of remorse, mentally ill, low iq, and children should never be given the death penalty-because they might not understand.

[JayneH]

I am all for it. Unfortunately we dont have it here. We have serial killers living in absolute luxury in our maximum security jails while there are people struggling to live day to day on the outside. These guys have flat screens, ensuites and can decorate their "hotel rooms" pretty much how they want. They may not have their freedom but I really begrudge someone who can kill multiple times living a better life that others - and I as a tax payer have to pay for it! I would much rather pay for a needle or a noose and get rid of them. The victims dont have a say in their death - so why should the murderers get a say in theirs? (sorry for the rant but I feel quite passionate about this subject)

[ihavepromisestokeep]

I think I have found a link to the podcast. Listen out for the question from Craig Diaz from Cardiff. That's me. :blush:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/displayPopup/0,,125809,00.html

[Bev Vincent]

Has Stephen ever expressed his stance on death penalty and if so what is it ?

He has -- look for his 1999 interview with Muriel Grey. It's in Secret Windows from Book of the Month Club.

[youngfibre]

Kill by all means possible. electric chair, hanging and nothing as cool as shooting unless its treason. when a 48 year old man rapes a 7 year old child with enough change to get six prostitutes in his back pocket 500m from a brothel. kill him twice! when a so-called pastor burns his church members for adultery when he is sacredly sleeping with all married women to bless the families kill him twice. dont want to know what made them so. i would happily add stoning if i didnt feel that was inhuman even for them!

[Guershom]

I think I have found a link to the podcast. Listen out for the question from Craig Diaz from Cardiff. That's me. :blush:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/displayPopup/0,,125809,00.html

Nos da !

Hey man, I hadn't even noticed you're from Cardiff. I lived in your city and I LOVE Wales :smile2:.

Listen, I've got trouble opening the file with my computer but I trust you on what Stephen said about death penalty. So he's against it except in extreme cases, right ?

Cofion gorau

[Guershom]

He has -- look for his 1999 interview with Muriel Grey. It's in Secret Windows from Book of the Month Club.

Thanks for the info. Where can I find that ? I mean do I have to buy the book ? Or is there a website ?

[ihavepromisestokeep]

Nos da !

Hey man, I hadn't even noticed you're from Cardiff. I lived in your city and I LOVE Wales :smile2:.

Listen, I've got trouble opening the file with my computer but I trust you on what Stephen said about death penalty. So he's against it except in extreme cases, right ?

Cofion gorau

I think so, although my memory is not the best. I was so excited to be there, listening to one of my heroes, I lot of it went by in a blur.:smile2:

[Bev Vincent]

Thanks for the info. Where can I find that ? I mean do I have to buy the book ? Or is there a website ?

I don't know if the interview is available anywhere online or not. You could try Googling Muriel Grey and Stephen King.

[Leighjavu]

What if Stephen King got to decide the form of death to be sentenced!!
I bet there would be a sharp drop in death row worthy crimes!

[tillyn]

Depends, a pedophile yes. i would say string him up . Serial Killers stand in line for the rope. Sorry these people think only about themselves, and not the lives they've ruined.

[JRLauer]

I've always been the type who'd say, "The punishment should fit the crime" But when you put someone to death for a crime they committed its almost like you're doing them a favor. Let them rot in prison for what they've done. Having one's freedom taken away is one on the worst punishments I can imagine.

[Antony butterworth]

Hello fans of the king

i am absulutely against the death penalty its just to much of an easy option the should be made to suffer in jail acording to jusice

[ally88]

I've always been the type who'd say, "The punishment should fit the crime" But when you put someone to death for a crime they committed its almost like you're doing them a favor. Let them rot in prison for what they've done. Having one's freedom taken away is one on the worst punishments I can imagine.

I would agree with this if they really did suffer but here in the UK our prison system is laughable...i can't refer to it as a 'justice' system as it is definitely not just.
The fact we spend 3times as much money on meals for criminals than we do on childrens school dinners says a lot really..and never mind our elderly people suffering through the cold on measly pensions whilst criminals have such a varied choice of meals in prison, access to tvs, dvds, computers, gyms and so on.
A friend of mine is a prison warden where some notorious killers are jailed and he says they have to refer to them as MR or MRS to show respect for them...political correctness gone mad IMO.
Those killers never respected others whilst taking their lives and doing such inhumane things so they should no longer deserve any respect...the only time we hear about 'human rights' in this country is when some criminals rights are being infringed but the government seems to forget the human rights of the victims and ordinairy decent people.

For these criminals i am most definitely in favour of the death sentence, with all the advances in forensic testing available now to determine guilt i believe if there is no doubt then the death sentence should apply.

[abacus]

I think the Death penalty is more ethical than trying to actually be a complete ethical society, which would likely only become a dystopia. I wouldn't want to live under the constant surveillance and authority of Psychiatry that would be necessary in a world without the Death penalty. The prisons are already overwhelmed. We can't afford prisoners as it is. Were I a violent criminal, I would want the death penalty.

[ms.darkside]

I am not sure where I stand. As in the "Green Mile" you may put innocence to death. But for the Jeffrey Dahmers' of the world... I don't really know where I'd be on that.

Here in PA, we have an 11 yr old who shot his dad's fiance in the back of the head while she slept. He went to school in the morning and went on business as usual. Right now, they are saying they're gonna try him as an adult. They had him in adult jail until just recently he was moved to a juvenile facility. So, what if the killer was just a kid?

There are too many "what ifs" to be thrown into the mix.

[LadyHitchhiker]

I'm on the fence about this one.

[demorgan]

I dont mind the death penalty. Some of these people probably dont think that being in Prison is punishment( free cable and 3 spuares a day..just avoid bending over). The law isnt/never will be perfect.

[Todash]

I dont mind the death penalty. Some of these people probably dont think that being in Prison is punishment( free cable and 3 spuares a day..just avoid bending over). The law isnt/never will be perfect.
So you're saying it's okay to occasionally kill an innocent person because "the law isn't perfect"?

[gclark]

Absolutely AGAINST it.

By killing them, we become them.

hmmmm lets think about that for a second. Given the fact that our death penalty, (in whatever states they are still enacted, new mexico just abolished the death penalty. that stinks) has not turned into a mostly humane way to die, if there ever was one. I mean, we do it to our pets all the time right? So i don't think killing someone via lethal injection can be considered "becoming" the serial rapist/killer that tortures and kills women and cuts off body parts and all the other gruesome things.




There are two separate issues here.

1. Can a person commit a crime that has as its proper punishment the forfeiture of that person's life? Yes, I think so.

2. Is society capable of correctly determining who those people are? Considering that 17 people have been freed from death row in the US so far, exonerated by DNA evidence, I would have to say no. Seventeen people freed, and how many more went to their graves innocent? No one knows. When an individual kills an innocent person, we call that murder and punish accordingly. When the state kills an innocent person, there are no repercussions. "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice."

I like your take on this! especially the end there. but then you can also ask the reverse side of that. Of the 1153 people that have been executed since 1976 across the united states, a study has stated that as many as 48 people were taken off of death row in the last 20 years. Not that they were innocent either, mind you! but the fact that they got another lawyer who was able to find a little squeezing room, with how the prosecuters worked the evidence or the witnesses, or how the jury acted during the trial, and the judge wont allow the person to be executed while there's a reasonable doubt. Most of them were probably guilty any way!!! But with all the states abolishing the death penalty, and most people waiting years on death row for execution, one might assume that by causing this controversy, finding these loopholes, they stay their dates of execution long enough for the state to abolish it! that's neither here nor there.

So you have the 48 that were taken off, and the 17 that you mentioned earlier. that's 65. that leaves 1088 people that were executed in the last 30 years that are still considered guilty. that's less than 10 percent over the 30 year period. No judicial system is perfect. But if you let all of them off, then who's really winning?

[JayneH]

All for it. I have what some would say contraversial views on these subjects.
Murderers, serial Rapists, Pedophiles - get rid of them all....
I am also Pro Choice and Pro Euthanasia.

It is all very cut and dried as far as I am concerned.... you take a life (and with rapists and pedophiles even though they dont kill - they are still "taking a life" from their victims) they should lose theirs. People choose to do these things and if they choose to do it knowing the consequences then how can they complain!

[pandora]

FOR IT!!!! People would start thinking twice knowing they would be held accountable. Have you seen the Federal Prisons? It seems like more of an inconvenience rather than a punishment.

[Todash]

So you have the 48 that were taken off, and the 17 that you mentioned earlier. that's 65. that leaves 1088 people that were executed in the last 30 years that are still considered guilty. that's less than 10 percent over the 30 year period. No judicial system is perfect. But if you let all of them off, then who's really winning?Well, I wasn't suggesting giving them an all-expenses paid trip to Disneyland. :wink2: As I mentioned in another thread, jail sucks. Sucks, sucks, sucks, sucks, sucks. So let them sit in jail. At least that way, if it's discovered that they didn't commit the crime, they can be released, and if they did do it, they are not anywhere they can hurt anyone else. I don't for one second believe that all 1088 of those people executed were guilty. Not for one second. Just look at us here. When someone dies, especially if the victim was a child, or if the victim was tortured, or (I'm not making this up; you can see the statistics for yourself) if the victim was white, we the people want vengeance. We aren't after justice, we are after blood. Logic goes out the window. Lynch mobs, or juries who are caught up in a lynch mob mentality, are incapable of dispassionately examining evidence when emotions are running high, as they often do in a capital case. We can talk about deterrents and money and whatever we want, but in reality, executing a person, for most people, is about killing The Other.

Nobody "wins" in this scenario, regardless. The victims are dead or messed up for life, and nothing we can do can bring them back. The criminal is another wasted life. But the person executed for a crime he did not commit, that person is just as much a victim as the original victim of the crime. Why is that acceptable? How can that possibly be okay?

[PatInTheHat]

hmmmm lets think about that for a second. Given the fact that our death penalty, (in whatever states they are still enacted, new mexico just abolished the death penalty. that stinks) has not turned into a mostly humane way to die, if there ever was one. I mean, we do it to our pets all the time right? So i don't think killing someone via lethal injection can be considered "becoming" the serial rapist/killer that tortures and kills women and cuts off body parts and all the other gruesome things.






I like your take on this! especially the end there. but then you can also ask the reverse side of that. Of the 1153 people that have been executed since 1976 across the united states, a study has stated that as many as 48 people were taken off of death row in the last 20 years. Not that they were innocent either, mind you! but the fact that they got another lawyer who was able to find a little squeezing room, with how the prosecuters worked the evidence or the witnesses, or how the jury acted during the trial, and the judge wont allow the person to be executed while there's a reasonable doubt. Most of them were probably guilty any way!!! But with all the states abolishing the death penalty, and most people waiting years on death row for execution, one might assume that by causing this controversy, finding these loopholes, they stay their dates of execution long enough for the state to abolish it! that's neither here nor there.

So you have the 48 that were taken off, and the 17 that you mentioned earlier. that's 65. that leaves 1088 people that were executed in the last 30 years that are still considered guilty. that's less than 10 percent over the 30 year period. No judicial system is perfect. But if you let all of them off, then who's really winning?

I really wasn't aware of there being a contest...an essay perhaps?
Lawdy yes I do so love a good essay, where may I enter:wink2:?

So what your sayin' is, that even if an innocent human being or even two...maybe a few is executed, then that's just jake, because as we know, no system is perfect so we should take what we can get.
And afterall, it's not like we're beating them to death with a stick or stoning them, so they should just cowboy it up (my apologies Cowboy:blush:) for the overall good of a society that is quite comfortable in it's own imperfections.
The ends, once again justifying them there means, and all that kinda stuff.

Hmmm, how many bogus executions, one might just wonder, would be an acceptable number, to be considered unacceptable?
You know, just in case we participate in morally certain'/knee jerk jurisprudence sponsored payback, or maybe some fear fueled patriotistically constituional short sheeting, or just for the hell of it, a little good 'ol fashioned societal &/or ideological cleansing yet oddly pathologically pleasing type killing sprees, and need some kind of braking system to stop?
You know how hard it is to quit doing something your good at, but even a "public safety" system may need an intervention every now & again.

Our antiquated and draconian systems of justice & punishment needs some serious and long overdue cleaning and overhauling.
In many areas, it needs to be completely re-thought & re-built utilizing more of the knowledge, insights and tools we have today.
You would think a little something we call justice (and truth, let's not forget that truth if we can help it:biggrin2:), would welcome any and all tools in the big bag o' innocent till proven quilty beyond a reasonable doubt, to accomplish the getting of that justice, but once your in a rut...............................
It's always easier to do what your used to doing, so I guess easier is the bestest thing.
Ya know, here's something that I've always found interesting.
Have you ever heard in a "if a time machine really existed, what would you do" conversation, someone will almost always say they'd do something in history, that would change a great evil.
You hear a lot, the "I'd go back and KILL Hitler before....", oratory, or similar such holocaustic or genocidal ending utterings.
Here's what I find interesting, you never hear, "I'd go back to find out the who, what, where & why's that snapped that crazy little peckerwooods way of thinkin', and pushed him over the edge to the dark side of the lunitic fringe".
I mean, we're talking about time traveling being possible, that's the key here, and whacking the bastard is the first thing that comes to mind?...screw understanding root causes and knowledge that would help us recognize those causes...'kay, whatever:glare:.
Gee whiz, they could still pop a cap if the ice cream cone, pat on the back and the verrry kind words of encouragement didn't work out, and still be back before McDonalds stopped serving breakfast...yesterday.
Nope, alway's straight for the kill...I just find it interesting.

If I had a point, it might be this...maybe.
Our system is badly broken, and needs to be fixed post haste before we can commit state sanctioned homicide, with any hope for any kind of a clear national conscience...a person's own is between themselves, and their individual digestive systems:oops:.
(and if we're ever to hope it can actually be used as a tool to actually fight violent crime, and not just end up being Human Warehouse Inc. a subsidiary of....)

[Autumnlyn]

Totally for the Death Penalty and not just for Murderers!!! Habitual Criminals are a danger to our society, children and safety.

All of you who are "pro-lifer's"; what would you suggest we do with say...ummm..for example, habitual child molesters? (i.e. more than five convictions) And for the record castration does not stop molestation.

Should we as a society pay for housing, feeding and medical needs these abominations? I say no. Stop the indiscriminate valuation of human life. If an animal threatened your family you would kill it without remorse.

Sorry to go on such a brutal rant, but it just p!sses me off.

[PatInTheHat]

Totally for the Death Penalty and not just for Murderers!!! Habitual Criminals are a danger to our society, children and safety.

All of you who are "pro-lifer's"; what would you suggest we do with say...ummm..for example, habitual child molesters? (i.e. more than five convictions) And for the record castration does not stop molestation.

Should we as a society pay for housing, feeding and medical needs these abominations? I say no. Stop the indiscriminate valuation of human life. If an animal threatened your family you would kill it without remorse.

Sorry to go on such a brutal rant, but it just p!sses me off.

Pro-lifer?
Me?
While I do respect life, love it in fact, I also believe it should be a womans right to choose, up till the very moment her children reach eighteen years of age:oo:.
Don't think for a minute however, that I would kill anything without feeling some remorse...I'm not built that way.
I just love my freessshh fish sandwiches, but I even have feelings about it.
A wild animal attacking my family would make me feel awful to kill it...how could it not?
It's not as if a wild animal does what it does with any kind of malicious forethought.
Of course I would feel some remorse.

What would I do to a confirmed, multi-convicted (twice would be enough) child molester?
My perfect punishment would be life imprisonment in an instituion set-up exclusively for pedophiles and predatory sex offenders.
See, if you really read my posts, you should be able to see that it's not the punishment so much as it is in how we apply it, how it's done, the sanitizing of it and the inherent unfairness of it in it's application.
Not to mention how we seem to embrace the human errors that occur instead of humanly talking and dealing with them.

We're a country of laws supposidly, so what's so difficult for all the "law & order" types, wanting to follow the laws that exist, and make the proper legislative noise to make the changes they feel need to be made.

I still find no excuse for any acceptable number of innocent inmates...and not just on death row...none, zip, zero!
(I don't give a hoot in hell how falsley safe that makes us feel)
Yeah sure, that's not possible, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be in the business of fixing a system that doesn't come close to running with optimum fairness & equality for all, in accordance to how our wonderful justice system is supposed to be.
I feel that's what this country was supposed to be all about...that and the the wants & needs of a majority, are not sacrosanct above the rights of a minority.
(that one sure can be a beeeyoch huh:biggrin2:?)

On the other hand, getting rid of the whole process works fine for me too, if that's what everyone would like:smile2:.
Get rid of all the laws and let's start from scratch is what I say.
Instant same day execution upon conviction..."No mussin' fussin' or cussin'..Ladies Night everynight & kiddies under twelve are always FREE!!!"
Why not...now that would be a true deterrent for our impressionable upcoming youth and their often tragic antics don't ya think?
The way we do it now isn't anything but something like a sanctioned hit, with a professional "clean-up" crew, and then we as a society don't have to think about it.
If your ok with the possibility of executing one single innocent life, then thinking about it & even particapating, if only as a public witness (or even to protest) to it, should be a civil requirement just like jury duty.
The willing purposeful execution of one possible innocent, and treating it as an insurance company bean counter would (like it's simply the cost of doing business...nothing personal) speaks volumes on who we are a society I feel.
And I don't much care for that kind of society:glare:.
(then again, I don't much care for that supposedly tasty & oh so healthful asparagus either, so what do I know:rolleyes:)

[gclark]

Well, I wasn't suggesting giving them an all-expenses paid trip to Disneyland. :wink2: As I mentioned in another thread, jail sucks. Sucks, sucks, sucks, sucks, sucks. So let them sit in jail. At least that way, if it's discovered that they didn't commit the crime, they can be released, and if they did do it, they are not anywhere they can hurt anyone else. I don't for one second believe that all 1088 of those people executed were guilty. Not for one second. Just look at us here. When someone dies, especially if the victim was a child, or if the victim was tortured, or (I'm not making this up; you can see the statistics for yourself) if the victim was white, we the people want vengeance. We aren't after justice, we are after blood. Logic goes out the window. Lynch mobs, or juries who are caught up in a lynch mob mentality, are incapable of dispassionately examining evidence when emotions are running high, as they often do in a capital case. We can talk about deterrents and money and whatever we want, but in reality, executing a person, for most people, is about killing The Other.

Nobody "wins" in this scenario, regardless. The victims are dead or messed up for life, and nothing we can do can bring them back. The criminal is another wasted life. But the person executed for a crime he did not commit, that person is just as much a victim as the original victim of the crime. Why is that acceptable? How can that possibly be okay?



now i agree wholeheartedly on the point of prejudice in our judicial system. you would have to be a fool to believe that every judge acts fairly in every case whether they are black, white, asian, catholic, muslim, etc. that is VERY VERY true. Even the Jury of your peers is laughable. I mean MOST people (please don't bash me for saying this) hold a certain prejudice in their hearts, whether they know it or not. hell, i don't know very many people, who after 9/11, didn't look suspiciously at any arabic-looking (wrong phrase for them, but i was thinking iraqi and that definitely isn't right!) person on the flight with them. it's (dare i say) normal human behavior.

jail may not be fun for normal people, but normal people aren't in jail are they? just look at how much it costs to house just 1 inmate each day. something like 2k i think. that's insane. so while it may be torture to most to stay in prison for a lifetime (40-60 years sometimes) it is a huge expense to the citizens that aren't there. and there are some that WANT to be there, because the real world holds nothing for them. no job, no money, no home... but in jail they get food, shelter, TV, all the basic necessities.. hell they even get medical care, WITHOUT PAYING!!!! so i don't believe they should spend all their time in jail, but everyone has their own opinions..