Your thoughts about Steve's essay

[PatInTheHat]

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Thanks for bringing up meds. I wonder why the media ignores the connection between big pharma and mass shootings? Guns guns guns is the battle cry from corporate media. Not one mention of why it happened? Or ssri pills?I find that just a bit curious.

SNRT!
Yeah, yeah I just bet you do...hey Homeskillet, if ya unplug all of your electronic devices, I understand they stop talking to you, can't help ya with the house plants though, sorry, but your on your own with those smack talkin' jabbermouths...ya know, I think must be 'cause they're always in the pot is why they're so yacky, butt then that's just my theory, you of course have a full blown world wide house plant conspiracy, and just how drool is that?!

[Sepia and Dust]

We have both. The mental health system has serious issues that need to be addressed but so does the issue of guns/ammunition that are capable of mass destruction being too readily available. Had there not been guns easily accessible, who is to say that their anger/paranoia/whatever the mental break was would not have had a different outcome? The scenario of those with mental illness having violent tendencies who are not medicated or improperly medicated is playing out daily but it's only the ones who gain access to weapons and then use them against others that we hear about.

Who's to say that a non-gun outcome would have been much different?

Two stories, both related:

One guy I used to work with, you may have heard of. Marquise Hudspeth (warning: graphic video) was shot by the Bossier City police while in an almost psychotic state. He was unarmed. I didn't know him well.

Almost a year later, another guy who had worked alongside me and Marquise went home and sliced up his wife and five year old daughter with a butcher knife. There was no indication; he seemed normal. We believe that the daughter got cut by accident when she ran to help Mommy, but nobody knows for sure.

So guns aren't a necessary part of violence or of crimes.

Of course, I agree that those who aren't necessarily in complete control of their own actions should never have access to a firearm, but what can you do? Take me, for example--I've bought one gun in my life. The other eight I inherited from my dad. So maybe someday my brain stops working so good and I go a little nuts... how could my rampage have been prevented? Most people I know who own guns have at least one that came down to them from one of their parents or grandparents; also inherited from their family might have been dementia or psychosis. That's a lot of potentially crazy people with a lot of guns, but it's only the ones who are crazy that you've really got to worry about.

[Moderator]

I just finished reading the piece. I found it to be thoughtfully and passionately written and it did speak to me on many levels.

One question that I had though, here is a quote...

As a corollary to these background checks, there have to be stiff penalties for those who lie about their pasts in order to obtain weapons...

The lie about their pasts part...is that referring to private sales and the gun show loophole or just basically lying when you're filling out the paperwork to buy from a licensed seller? I ask because here, when you're buying from a licensed seller, your address on your picture ID has to match what they get during the background check, or it's a no go. Did I just misunderstand that or is it not that way in every state?

My thought was that he was referring to the applicant having had mental health issues or whatever else might prevent them from passing the background check, but saying they hadn't.

[Moderator]

Who's to say that a non-gun outcome would have been much different?

Two stories, both related:

One guy I used to work with, you may have heard of. Marquise Hudspeth (warning: graphic video) was shot by the Bossier City police while in an almost psychotic state. He was unarmed. I didn't know him well.

Almost a year later, another guy who had worked alongside me and Marquise went home and sliced up his wife and five year old daughter with a butcher knife. There was no indication; he seemed normal. We believe that the daughter got cut by accident when she ran to help Mommy, but nobody knows for sure.

So guns aren't a necessary part of violence or of crimes.

Of course, I agree that those who aren't necessarily in complete control of their own actions should never have access to a firearm, but what can you do? Take me, for example--I've bought one gun in my life. The other eight I inherited from my dad. So maybe someday my brain stops working so good and I go a little nuts... how could my rampage have been prevented? Most people I know who own guns have at least one that came down to them from one of their parents or grandparents; also inherited from their family might have been dementia or psychosis. That's a lot of potentially crazy people with a lot of guns, but it's only the ones who are crazy that you've really got to worry about.

Absolutely true but we could at least reduce the odds of it happening by making it more difficult to have them in the future and why a registry of gun owners and the weapons they have is not IMO a bad idea.

[Todash]

Who's to say that a non-gun outcome would have been much different?

Two stories, both related:

One guy I used to work with, you may have heard of. Marquise Hudspeth (warning: graphic video) was shot by the Bossier City police while in an almost psychotic state. He was unarmed. I didn't know him well.

Almost a year later, another guy who had worked alongside me and Marquise went home and sliced up his wife and five year old daughter with a butcher knife. There was no indication; he seemed normal. We believe that the daughter got cut by accident when she ran to help Mommy, but nobody knows for sure.

So guns aren't a necessary part of violence or of crimes.

Of course, I agree that those who aren't necessarily in complete control of their own actions should never have access to a firearm, but what can you do? Take me, for example--I've bought one gun in my life. The other eight I inherited from my dad. So maybe someday my brain stops working so good and I go a little nuts... how could my rampage have been prevented? Most people I know who own guns have at least one that came down to them from one of their parents or grandparents; also inherited from their family might have been dementia or psychosis. That's a lot of potentially crazy people with a lot of guns, but it's only the ones who are crazy that you've really got to worry about.

Cutting down on the number of guns doesn't stop violence, but it does reduce the number of murders, simply because guns are more lethal than other weapons. Something else that probably plays into it, as atomicinchworm has pointed out before, is that no matter how you feel, once that bullet leaves the gun, you cannot stop it. With guns there is no way to pull your punches. I'm sure plenty of people have killed someone with a gun and then immediately thought "What have I done?"

[swampdonkeykid]

The guns he used were legally obtained, he'd been trained how to use them, and they were there in his very own home, so yes they were easily (and currently legally) accessible.

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woa! Thank you, this is why I'm wailing about the medias coverage. No, we don't know how the guns were obtained. And no we don't know the extent of his " training". He can we when the media proves they have no integrity?

and I don't buy for a second his mother was a "prepper".

Even if he was trained he would have had to have been a green beret to do what he did! Remember, this is a feather weight autistic kid loaded down with gear! How did he even get in? Remember, state of e art security, had to be buzzed in. CCTV everywhere which suggests he would've been seen before he got close enough to the door. Even if he hadn't, no one called 911? What?

This kid would've had to reload many many times. And he hardly missed? The precision involved in this tragedy doesn't jibe with Adam lanza.

Again, I can only speculate and question. Because the media dropped the ball numerous times I can't believe anything they say. Again, integrity and consistency.

[Sepia and Dust]

Absolutely true but we could at least reduce the odds of it happening by making it more difficult to have them in the future and why a registry of gun owners and the weapons they have is not IMO a bad idea.

I'm trying to figure out the logistics of that. The government doesn't know that I own even a single gun. My dad's .357 that he used when he was a cop was left to my mom, but she was afraid of it, so now I have it. I have no intention of telling the government otherwise, simply because it's not their business. In general, I avoid being on the government's lists.

I imagine that's a sentiment shared by millions of others, so--since most gun owners have more than one firearm--that's millions of gun owners and many millions of guns that won't show up on the registry.

[Jordan]

I haven't seen any evidence to convince me that the shooter in Newtown wasn't actually an alien using advanced technology to assassinate the children who would, in the future, destroy his home planet.

Out of morbid curiosity, how do you feel about the moon landing, swampdonkeykid?

[~Ally~]

I haven't seen any evidence to convince me that the shooter in Newtown wasn't actually an alien using advanced technology to assassinate the children who would, in the future, destroy his home planet.

Out of morbid curiosity, how do you feel about the moon landing, swampdonkeykid?

I have a feeling my head will explode when I read the response to this one!

[Moderator]

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woa! Thank you, this is why I'm wailing about the medias coverage. No, we don't know how the guns were obtained. And no we don't know the extent of his " training". He can we when the media proves they have no integrity?

and I don't buy for a second his mother was a "prepper".

Even if he was trained he would have had to have been a green beret to do what he did! Remember, this is a feather weight autistic kid loaded down with gear! How did he even get in? Remember, state of e art security, had to be buzzed in. CCTV everywhere which suggests he would've been seen before he got close enough to the door. Even if he hadn't, no one called 911? What?

This kid would've had to reload many many times. And he hardly missed? The precision involved in this tragedy doesn't jibe with Adam lanza.

Again, I can only speculate and question. Because the media dropped the ball numerous times I can't believe anything they say. Again, integrity and consistency.

Let's leave the media out of this for a moment. Do you really think that the CT State Police would not have mentioned that the weapons were illegally owned? Or are they also in on this supposed misrepresentation of facts? I'm having a hard time understanding what your basic problem is with accepting that this happened in exactly the way it was reported once there had been time to sort out all the inconsistencies that occurred at the beginning because of our expectancy for immediate gratification and making sure the media has the first sound byte (which is what leads to misinformation). The only conclusion I can come to is that you are more afraid that your beliefs about the government cannot be validated if it did happen just as was reported and you would have no argument to dig in your heels against any form of gun control. As others have mentioned, you have not presented any facts to support your hypotheses--just speculations.