Homophobic?

[Sundrop]

...and the perfect elbow length rubber gloves...

AAAACK!!!!

[carrie's younger brother]

This works in many ways. I have quite a few gay friends and at least two of them absolutely detest lesbians. And they aren't joking. They run them down every opportunity they get and they have no feasible reason for it, other than because they are lesbians and they judge them all the same. I also have gay friends who believe they can turn any man to their sexual persuasion if they wanted to.
This just proves to me that all people can be strange/judgemental/deluded, irrespective of their sexuality.

Amen, sister!

[Walter Oobleck]

It`s fiction Ally, but some passages in the book, like that one about sports...that`s his thinking, I`m 100% sure of it. Looked like an entry from his personal diary.
But...I can`t agree with that.
What, girls don`t play soccer or basketball?
That makes them lesbians?

I don`t know what to think about this guy...and no, as far as I know he is straight. He is a German writer, Heinrich Steinfest, not really well known outside of Germany, as far as I know.

Did your opinion of the writer’s ideology change by story’s end, Srbo?

First impression of what you describe in the OP is that he is puttin’ on the Ritz. His argument seems silly, a fashion statement. But then again, if someone is tryin’ real hard to look like Gary Cooper, dressed up like a million dollar trooper, doesn’t that suggest they’d prefer that life over the late-trailer payment life they know? Is he onto something?

Or is it something else? Or both? Apparently he hasn’t been translated yet from the German? How does the writer treat other forms of tenderness? Watching hockey, someone scores a goal, the five (goal-scorer & teammates) on the ice huddle in a hug, sticks raised…then the goal-scorer leaves the group, skates along the bench, his gloved hand smacking the gloves of the his teammates standing by their bench. Arrgh!

I think this could be a relatively new phenomenon. They still have fights…Tootoo, for the Wings, whose job it is to fight…but I don’t recall if in the past--back when few wore helmets--if there was the obligatory skate-by the bench, smacking fists, after the group hug following a goal. Men ashamed of their tender moments? Nothing more? Nothing less?

Reading Laura Warholic, by Alexander Theroux, and Eugene Eyestones and his friend, Duxbak, are talking about E’s co-workers at Quink magazine, where E works, their opinion of Duxbak, who is unmarried, about Warholic, the editor at the magazine, who’d been in San Francisco. Things happened to him in San Francisco…He hates the place…And all it stands for…Or does not.

Eyestones says:

What’s ironic about that, is that homosexuality hundred of years ago posed far less a threat macho identity than heterosexuality did, an actual inversion of our current social belief…The social fear back then was the opposite! It was a Renaissance belief that males tended to be effeminized by their emasculating desire for women…How peculiar for them to feel that the ways of passion effeminized men.

I’m reminded of the commercial, two guys, eating subs…dreaming of Venice, of all places…that fantasy ends as they look at eat other.

Is shame of tenderness the reason some men have entered the priesthood…as a way of finding expression for those feelings?

[nygene40]

Eh, I think that's giving men too much credit for being overly complicated and thinky. Kidding, kidding! Of course, some gay men do "hide" in sports--that's probably where you will find gay men so deeply in the closet that they're one step from Narnia--but I think that's more because sports are so overtly masculine that it's good cover, not so much the opportunity to ogle and grab. But it's a small percentage; even completely straight guys, for reasons I confess I do not understand, seem to enjoy donning matching uniforms and beating each other up while chasing around a ball of some sort.

I think in your book the writer guy is screwing with the bully's head.

I'm not sure I understand your statement about gay men who "hide" in sports. Perhaps they truly enjoy football, baseball etc..."that's where you find men so deeply in the closet..." I'm sorry, but that is insulting on so many levels. I know many gay men and women who are just athletes, and play sports because they are athletes. They aren't trying to "hide" behind sports at all. What an absurd thing!

[unclelouie]

I was a wrestler in high school (placed in state finals in 93.. wow, I feel ancient now). I will be the first to tell you, there is nothing sexual or erotic about a competitve wrestling match. Greco-Roman and freestyle take 100% of your concenration, focus, and requires a tremendous amount of cardio stamina. Although, I can remember my sister and everyone else in the world making the old, "you like to roll around with sweaty men in tights" joke. Yeah.. haha. But no...

[hossenpepper]

I'm not sure I understand your statement about gay men who "hide" in sports. Perhaps they truly enjoy football, baseball etc..."that's where you find men so deeply in the closet..." I'm sorry, but that is insulting on so many levels. I know many gay men and women who are just athletes, and play sports because they are athletes. They aren't trying to "hide" behind sports at all. What an absurd thing!

Yes, your inability to fully read what Todash said is quite absurd indeed. She said nothing of the sort as you interpreted it. If you're going to get high n' mighty, maybe know WTF you're talking about first. You should have stopped after the first sentence of your post.

[nygene40]

Yes, your inability to fully read what Todash said is quite absurd indeed. She said nothing of the sort as you interpreted it. If you're going to get high n' mighty, maybe know WTF you're talking about first. You should have stopped after the first sentence of your post.

Getting high and mighty was not my intention.

I do know 'WTF" I am talking about when it comes to gay men and women who are athletes and enjoy playing sports simply for the joy of it, rather than to use it as a "cover" for their homosexuality.

Your response is overtly hostile, especially since it isn't your post I was responding to.

Perhaps Todash can speak for herself, and correct me in a more mature way, if I have indeed misunderstood her original post. I am open to explanation when I have misinterpreted anything.

Given the aggressive tone you jumped in with (which showed no intention except to be insulting) it might be a good idea if you just minded your own business on this one.

[Moderator]

And from now on, the hope would be that everyone will ratchet things down a notch or two.

[hossenpepper]

Getting high and mighty was not my intention.

I do know 'WTF" I am talking about when it comes to gay men and women who are athletes and enjoy playing sports simply for the joy of it, rather than to use it as a "cover" for their homosexuality.

Your response is overtly hostile, especially since it isn't your post I was responding to.

Perhaps Todash can speak for herself, and correct me in a more mature way, if I have indeed misunderstood her original post. I am open to explanation when I have misinterpreted anything.

Given the aggressive tone you jumped in with (which showed no intention except to be insulting) it might be a good idea if you just minded your own business on this one.

Yes, no less aggressive than yours. The difference is yours was based on the fact you completely misinterpreted her words (in a completely off the wall way I might add). She said that because of the macho nature of sports, especially on the male side, being openly gay is not exactly accepted yet. Hence they have to hide it deeply to keep from being ostracized in their community. SHE MADE NO COMMENT ABOUT THE STATE OF MIND OF A GAY ATHLETE. Read that back several times as the entire foundation of your reply was that she as trying to impose her version of what a gay athlete thinks.

Had you said "I don't get what you're saying but if you mean this... I disagree", that would be one thing. But no, you had to say it was "insulting on so many levels". To who? You? But not sure who else it could be, so that means you are taking it personally and aggressively lashing back. The only reason you replied was to do this, yet when someone does it to you, and this time has actual facts an reality on their side you get upset? Please... However, if not taking it as personally insulting, I highly doubt you were elected the defender of all gay people, so you should maybe MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS, as you suggested I do.

As far you knowing what you were talking about, again, you seem to not have the ability to properly interpret and instead make an assumption. This further proves my initial response was 100% valid as it did not misunderstand or illicit a different type of response from you. That statement had nothing to do with what you do or do not know about being gay. I have no idea what you know about that, nor do I care. It had nothing to do with what you may or may not know about the plight of gay athlete. I have no idea what you know about that, nor do I care. It had everything to do with the obvious fact, based upon your own words, that you had no idea what the actual thing she said was in the first place (though it was clear and concise).

With that, I will respect Miss Mod and bow out.

[Lily Sawyer]

Yes, no less aggressive than yours. The difference is yours was based on the fact you completely misinterpreted her words (in a completely off the wall way I might add). She said that because of the macho nature of sports, especially on the male side, being openly gay is not exactly accepted yet. Hence they have to hide it deeply to keep from being ostracized in their community. SHE MADE NO COMMENT ABOUT THE STATE OF MIND OF A GAY ATHLETE. Read that back several times as the entire foundation of your reply was that she as trying to impose her version of what a gay athlete thinks.

Had you said "I don't get what you're saying but if you mean this... I disagree", that would be one thing. But no, you had to say it was "insulting on so many levels". To who? You? But not sure who else it could be, so that means you are taking it personally and aggressively lashing back. The only reason you replied was to do this, yet when someone does it to you, and this time has actual facts an reality on their side you get upset? Please... However, if not taking it as personally insulting, I highly doubt you were elected the defender of all gay people, so you should maybe MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS, as you suggested I do.

As far you knowing what you were talking about, again, you seem to not have the ability to properly interpret and instead make an assumption. This further proves my initial response was 100% valid as it did not misunderstand or illicit a different type of response from you. That statement had nothing to do with what you do or do not know about being gay. I have no idea what you know about that, nor do I care. It had nothing to do with what you may or may not know about the plight of gay athlete. I have no idea what you know about that, nor do I care. It had everything to do with the obvious fact, based upon your own words, that you had no idea what the actual thing she said was in the first place (though it was clear and concise).

With that, I will respect Miss Mod and bow out.

Cocktail?