Gun control discussions in the wake of the Newtown, CT deaths

[Todash]

Good points, Shasta! I think maybe not so much the instability of any family member should be a deciding factor, but if you have an unstable person living in your house, it's probably a good idea to really think about whether you should keep guns at home. But yes, we should stop demonizing responsible gun owners. The vast majority of gun owners will never commit a crime.

Still, it's worth thinking about the fact that many people who become criminals never purchased their guns with such an outcome in mind. In the midst of a very heated argument, when no one is thinking clearly, that is a dangerous time to have a gun within easy reach. Or after a devastating job loss. Anything like that. I imagine most people who kill a spouse, family member, friend, or even acquaintance would take it back if they could.

[cat in a bag]

I agree wtih everything you say, but I only partially agree with this. It's a heck of a lot easier for a group of people in a setting like a mall or a school to take out someone with a bow (or a knife) than it is to take out someone with a gun.

Absolutely! I agree. The young man's father, even after being shot with the bow, had enough strength to struggle with his son and yell at his students to get out of the classroom. Otherwise, there might have been more people dead in that incident as well. It was during that struggle that the son stabbed him. But it gave the kids in that classroom time to get out and get the police called. I'm just saying, if someone wants to hurt someone else, they don't need to have a gun to do it.

Thanks, Pat and everyone for your kind words about my earlier post. I know it's a very touchy issue, and I appreciate that my view can be respected as well.

[Todash]

It makes you wonder, they closed many of the old government-run sanitariums, but now we have mass shootings. Of course many of the old "looney bins" were true hells-on-earth for those people stuck in them with no hope of getting out (ever read "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"?) But you are right, I think we just traded those for prisons now.

If you know you have an unstable member of the family, does anyone think it's a good idea to keep guns around? The family of the shooter is responsible to some degree in this case.

I definitely agree if the person is a member of your household. I wasn't sure in this case, but then this morning I read a comment from a previous babysitter where the mother had told him "Don't turn your back on Adam even to go to the bathroom." And she thought it was a good idea to have a gun collection accessible to her known mentally unstable son? Seriously???

Let's compare gun ownership to the privilege of driving a car. We have all kinds of laws in place to make sure that people know what they are doing before they drive a car (driver's license testing, etc), and all kinds of traffic laws on top of that, speeding enforcement, car safety laws, etc. Does it stop all people from driving poorly? Of course not, but can you imagine how many fatalities there would be if we didn't have all those checks in place?

This is something a FB friend-of-a-friend posted this weekend. I thought it was worth quoting here.

I'm in favor of stricter gun control. It seems to me that with freedom comes responsibility. There are oodles of things in America that we are "free" to do--provided we meet certain criteria and show ourselves competent to do those things. I could open me a burger joint tomorrow--if i met health codes and safety regulations and OSHA--and God knows what else--because what I serve is going to affect the public's health. No one minds that much but if my neighbor gets fired and loses his house and he's suddenly buying Uzis and barrels of ammunition, I'm restricting his rights by saying no man, a gun's probably not good for you or the public just now???? That's a serious disconnect when I can be told how and when I can sell burgers and fries but going to the army surplus and ramboing out is just okey dokey!

[Todash]

Still, it's worth thinking about the fact that many people who become criminals never purchased their guns with such an outcome in mind. In the midst of a very heated argument, when no one is thinking clearly, that is a dangerous time to have a gun within easy reach. Or after a devastating job loss. Anything like that. I imagine most people who kill a spouse, family member, friend, or even acquaintance would take it back if they could.

To be clear, I am not at all suggesting a police/nanny state in which people should be prevented from owning guns overall because of what might happen. I'm saying this is something each person should think about before purchasing a weapon. Female murder victims, for example, are killed by their boyfriends or husbands 33% of the time; I imagine the vast majority of those murders were committed in the heat of the moment and that the gun was not purchased for that reason.

[fushingfeef]

Personally, I would not keep a gun in a house if my spouse had a history of depression. Guns offer a permanent outcome to a temporary feeling. If I knew I had a relative visiting who was unstable, I would lock those up.

I should point out that this issue is very close to me, as my 13-year-old brother committed suicide with one of my father's pistols, and he had a history of hyperactivity and probably had other behavioral issues that were not commonly diagnosed back in 1988. I grew up owning guns and hunting with my father. But I see the enormous risks of guns as well.

[GNTLGNT]

...Bravo Tina!...you did well, and thank you for having the courage of your convictions...I will vehemently disagree with anyone who demands a wholesale ban on semi-automatic weapons...AND there is an awful lot of misunderstanding of what constitutes an "assault" weapon...plus, unless it's illegally modified-there ARE no "automatic" weapons outside the armed forces or law enforcement...as far as assault weapons, they make LOOK like a military grade firearm, but are not-do I personally want to own one?..no, but I think you should be allowed to have the opportunity IF there is a legitimate need/use...hell, there's a BB gun out there right NOW that looks just like an M-16...yeah, that's asking for trouble...but am I going to relinquish my Colt 1911 just because it's "semi-automatic"?...that's a big HELL NO!...as I've said elsewhere, more stringent background checks, education and yes, mental health screenings ARE needed...we simply DO NOT need to go into panic mode and try to infringe on those of us who ARE intelligent and responsible gun-owners...I find that offensive.....even as I continue to agonize over the deaths that have resulted from the incomprehensible evil unleashed by the twisted souls responsible for the death of innocence-no matter their ages...there is NO easy fix to this, but as a self-professed "gun nut"...I do pray for RATIONAL handling of the matter as we try to find our way forward as a nation....

[Shasta]

Still, it's worth thinking about the fact that many people who become criminals never purchased their guns with such an outcome in mind. In the midst of a very heated argument, when no one is thinking clearly, that is a dangerous time to have a gun within easy reach. Or after a devastating job loss. Anything like that. I imagine most people who kill a spouse, family member, friend, or even acquaintance would take it back if they could.

Oh I'm sure. Which is why I believe all guns should be kept in a safe, whether or not you are the only person there or not. I think having to take the time to open a safe can be enough to cool someone down.

And I know gun advocates who say that the time it takes to open a safe could be the difference between life and death. But I took a gun safety class and the instructor says people who are victim of violent crimes and do own guns aren't often able to get to their guns in time to do anything about it anyway.

A safe may not completely stop crime but it may help lower it.

[Shasta]

Personally, I would not keep a gun in a house if my spouse had a history of depression. Guns offer a permanent outcome to a temporary feeling. If I knew I had a relative visiting who was unstable, I would lock those up.

Well, that's up to you. If my husband wanted to kill me or himself he could have done it 800 times by now, and I'm sure will have 800 x 800 the opportunities in the future.

I should point out that this issue is very close to me, as my 13-year-old brother committed suicide with one of my father's pistols, and he had a history of hyperactivity and probably had other behavioral issues that were not commonly diagnosed back in 1988. I grew up owning guns and hunting with my father. But I see the enormous risks of guns as well.

I'm sorry about your brother. I am. But if your father had the gun in a safe that only he had access to that wouldn't have happened. But if your brother was determined he may have found another way.

Guns are risky. And if the general public treated them as such we'd probably be much better off. That's all I'm saying.

[~Ally~]

I should point out that this issue is very close to me, as my 13-year-old brother committed suicide with one of my father's pistols,

Sorry about your brother Bob, such a tragic waste of a young life.

[atomicinchworm]

My biggest issue with guns is while it is easy to deflect a knife strike mid-blow if you change your mind, you can't take back a bullet.

I won't ever have guns in the house. I have a lot of problems with depression and mood disturbances. Sometimes, though not as often as when I was a teenager, I think much bleaker thoughts. I know that they will change, but during a low it doesn't seem like anything will snap me out of it.

Guns are best kept out of homes when there are people who have mental illness within them. They just make it too easy.