Pit Bulls

**Sigmund** · December 3rd, 2012

Hi, Everybody.

I pray all are doing well or getting better.

I had a terrifying experience today. I went to a friends house to take her to run errands. She was waiting for me at her gate and I went to help her walk to my truck and get her in. (She is an older woman and has trouble walking.) Just as I was getting to the gate she yelled, "Siggie! Get in, get in!" That's when I heard running and growling behind me. I grabbed the gate and swung around to close it behind me. I looked and there was a humongous pit bull at the gate. His head and one leg was in between the gate and the post. He was growling and snapping trying mightily to push his way in. I was trying to stay away from his jaws and push the gate closed. There was another pit bull mix dog right behind him and he started to charge the gate. I had no idea just how strong and determined these animals could be. I was terrified. I KNEW if this dog got in I would be knocked down almost immediately and be mauled. I thought, "These two dogs are going to knock me down and tear me to pieces. There's no way my friend will be able to help me. I'm going to die a long, painful death. Good Lord! What if one attacks me and the other turns on my friend?!!! Will anyone hear our screams? How long will it be before help arrives? Will either of us survive?" (It's amazing how many thoughts fly through your mind in such a situation.)

We finally managed to get the gate shut and and latched but they kept charging the gate. I yelled to my friend to get into the house but she moves very slowly and she would have to get up the stairs. Then she would have to unlock the door. Time, time. We needed TIME. The gate was taking a beating and I was afraid it would not hold. What to do? Stay at the gate and try to keep it from giving or back up and see if I could find something to use as a weapon? The main, full bred pit bull was now trying to squeeze through the gate and fence post. I was backing up and trying to think what to do. Seeing that ferocious determined dog fighting to get in...I never in my life wanted my 38 pistol in my hand more than at that instant. I would not have hesitated a nanosecond shooting those two dogs to death.

After an eternity the dogs owner came and was able to leash the dogs and drag them back to her house (two house down). Even then, in their yard they were charging their fence.

I an avowed animal lover. After today's experience I am convinced. There is no such a thing as a 'good' or 'safe' pit bull dog. That owner could not control her dogs-they were hell bent to attack us. You can show me a gazillion pictures of your pit bull laying lovingly next to your newborn baby and you can show me a million research articles stating pit bulls can be trained and controlled. I won't believe it.

It is late evening and I do believe I will sit here and have myself a good long cry. I truly feel I narrowly escaped death today.

Peace.

**Vose** · December 4th, 2012

I'm sorry that you had to go through this, but I'm very glad that you are safe, Sigmund! This is a debate that has plagued me for some time. I personally wouldn't want to keep any dog that's big enough to kill me, but I know that there are lots of people who would stake all they have on how safe pitbulls are - that they are only dangerous because they've been taught to be so or beaten to that point. All animals can be dangerous, and this owner is certainly not doing a good job of containing his animals.

I fear you're in for quite an earful - I trust that people will take your horrible situation in to account and go easy (argue their point, ok, but not berate your for your opinion).

**Todash** · December 4th, 2012

Originally Posted by Vose

I'm sorry that you had to go through this, but I'm very glad that you are safe, Sigmund! This is a debate that has plagued me for some time. I personally wouldn't want to keep any dog that's big enough to kill me, but I know that there are lots of people who would stake all they have on how safe pitbulls are - that they are only dangerous because they've been taught to be so or beaten to that point. All animals can be dangerous, and this owner is certainly not doing a good job of containing his animals.

I fear you're in for quite an earful - I trust that people will take your horrible situation in to account and go easy (argue their point, ok, but not berate your for your opinion).

Aww ... I can't imagine anyone would berate our dear Sig! She had an awful experience, and it is just part of the human condition that emotions are inherently more convincing than statistics. But we also have, as SK rightly has pointed out, big ol' Boeing 747 brains, and really it's better when we can take a step back from our emotions and make sure they're guiding us in the right direction. There is a LOT LOT LOT of misinformation out there about pit bulls, and only people who stumble across that fact realize it. The rest of us just naturally assume that the media is doing its due diligence when reporting this stuff, and in this case they're just not. Not Sig's fault at all!!

**GNTLGNT** · December 4th, 2012

...I am SO very thankful you and your friend escaped the tragedy Sig, the big guy upstairs was truly watching out for you...AND I understand your feelings, but I will maintain there are bad dogs-just like bad humans-a lot of it is nature vs nurture...and not ALL pit bulls are bad-nor are all humans...

**Todash** · December 4th, 2012

I'm so sorry that you had that experience! But I have to tell you that the animals you saw were very, very, very likely NOT pit bulls. Pits are not only unfairly maligned in the media, they are actually NOT easy to visually identify, even for an experienced person. It's very common for someone to assume an attack was perpetuated by a pit bull without actually verifying it. The main thing you said that made me think they are not pits is that you classified them as large dogs. Pit bulls are actually typically not particularly large. The American Pit Bull Terrier, specifically, weighs anywhere from 30 to 65 pounds. Not a lap dog, but certainly there are much bigger dogs out there.

In addition, pit bulls are not typically aggressive toward people. They do have a tendency to be aggressive toward other dogs, so anyone getting a pit really needs to make sure their dog is properly dog-socialized, i.e., spend quite a bit of time at the dog park and such. But pits typically like people, especially children. It's sad that the media has gotten this mass hysteria thing going on over them, because while it is NEVER EVER a good idea to leave any dog alone with a small child (dogs are animals with a prey drive; let us not forget this), it's a shame that breed-specific legislation has in so many places made it impossible to own a dog that usually adores children.

The dogs you saw, regardless of breed, were dangerous and aggressive and frankly should probably be put down. I'm not saying a pit cannot get that way. ANY dog can. And it IS unfortunate that certain people are drawn to dogs that have been classified as dangerous, such as people who fight dogs or criminals. Those are the same people who, frankly, are inclined to treat their dogs in such a way as to make them as aggressive as possible, but that is a person problem, not a dog problem.

Of course, certain dog breeds do have certain characteristics, and pit bulls have characteristics that would make me not want to own one. But I wouldn't *not* have one because of (supposed) aggression. Rather, it is because they can be a little stubborn and a bit higher energy than I really want in a dog. Every breed does have some negative traits; for example, Basset hounds are strongly food driven and independently like to follow their noses, which means that unless you are holding a dog treat, they often aren't super concerned with what you think.

Again, I completely understand that you had a terrifying experience, and the owner of those dogs should frankly not own dogs. (I know that is harsh, but you could have been hurt, and why the hell were those dogs not contained?) But any decision made purely on emotion is likely not to be logical. I know you know that. What if you had been attacked by a standard poodle? Or a German Shepherd? Or a Chow? In the history of the world, there is probably not one single breed of dog that has not at some point attacked a human.

Regardless, as I mentioned at first, it is actually pretty difficult to identify pit bulls based on sight. I know you think the dogs you saw were pit bulls and pit bull mixes, but check out these links. Each one has one American Pit Bull Terrier on the page, and the pits they show are typical of the breed.

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

http://www.pickthepit.com/

http://evenchance.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/EC-Find-The-Pit-lores.pdf

**Becks19** · December 4th, 2012

I an avowed animal lover. After today's experience I am convinced. There is no such a thing as a 'good' or 'safe' pit bull dog

Sigmund, I am so sorry that you had such a frightening experience. The dogs aren't to blame here, it's the owner. No dog is inherently bad. When you have a dog such as a pit bull, Rottweiler, German Shepherd, Doberman, etc what you do when they are a puppy makes all the difference. ( in fact it is critical) If you do not socialize these types of dogs( with people, pets, kids, noises, traffic, wheelchairs) at an early age so that they can distinguish between a friendly person or a threat, you will have a monster on your hands. The dog will assess everyone and every thing as a threat. They are a time bomb waiting to go off and someone will get hurt. Some people have no business having powerful breeds of dogs. It sounds to me like you ran into and extremely bad and irresponsible owner. I am glad that you are OK. I will argue that in the right hands any breed of dog including the pit bull can and will make a safe and loyal family pet. I know, I have had two of them. ( Maxine whom I rescued from the pound has a ton of pit bull in her, any stranger can pet her any time. in fact she is a ham for attention)

**JellybeanJay** · December 4th, 2012

Oh Sig, that is awful but I am so happy to hear that you are okay!

I have to agree with you, I am not a pitbull fan. I find them to be a very aggressive and dangerous dog. I was walking to school with my kids the other day and we were charged by a pitbull. I was so scared because I had three 3yr olds with me as well as my own two children who are 5yrs and 7yrs, the only thought that went through my mind was how was I going to protect all of these children. We got lucky because the owner came out in the nick of time and managed to gain control of the dog, once I saw that the dog was securely leashed, I gave that woman an earful.

People can quote all the stats they want about what a sweet and gentle breed this dog is but its the stats that show the attacks and maulings that scare me the most.

**fljoe0** · December 4th, 2012

Originally Posted by JellybeanJay

Oh Sig, that is awful but I am so happy to hear that you are okay!

I have to agree with you, I am not a pitbull fan. I find them to be a very aggressive and dangerous dog. I was walking to school with my kids the other day and we were charged by a pitbull. I was so scared because I had three 3yr olds with me as well as my own two children who are 5yrs and 7yrs, the only thought that went through my mind was how was I going to protect all of these children. We got lucky because the owner came out in the nick of time and managed to gain control of the dog, once I saw that the dog was securely leashed, I gave that woman an earful.

People can quote all the stats they want about what a sweet and gentle breed this dog is but its the stats that show the attacks and maulings that scare me the most.

A big problem is that a lot of people want mean dogs (for reasons I can not understand) so there are a lot of bad ones out there. When I'm out walking with my dog and a dog charges me, I have no idea if that is a good dog or a bad one. It is very worrisome when I'm out walking. If you have ever owned a dog, you know that no matter what you do, that dog is occasionally get loose. So if you choose to have a mean dog and live in a regular residential neighborhood, you are taking a risk of hurting someone. I don't understand people that want dangerous dogs.

Almost every instance of a pit bull attack I've read about in my area involves a dog that is not licensed and has not had it's shots. The county takes the dog and the idiot owner just goes and gets another one. These dogs are disposable to these owners. I think that maybe making a criminal assault/battery charge against the owner when a dog harms someone might be needed.

**Todash** · December 4th, 2012

Originally Posted by fljoe0

A big problem is that a lot of people want mean dogs (for reasons I can not understand) so there are a lot of bad ones out there. When I'm out walking with my dog and a dog charges me, I have no idea if that is a good dog or a bad one. It is very worrisome when I'm out walking. If you have ever owned a dog, you know that no matter what you do, that dog is occasionally get loose. So if you choose to have a mean dog and live in a regular residential neighborhood, you are taking a risk of hurting someone. I don't understand people that want dangerous dogs.

Almost every instance of a pit bull attack I've read about in my area involves a dog that is not licensed and has not had it's shots. The county takes the dog and the idiot owner just goes and gets another one. These dogs are disposable to these owners. I think that maybe making a criminal assault/battery charge against the owner when a dog harms someone might be needed.

Agreed. And the stats really need a closer look. The only way to know for sure what the breed of a dog is is to have it genetically tested. I imagine that is done in less than five percent of attack cases, and probably that's a generous estimate. Again, the links I posted below will give you a reliable indicator as to how well you can identify a pit. And remember, that's under no stress. When a dog is charging you with teeth bared and growling, your brain is really more into deciding fight or flight and is not so much worried about identifying the breed.

I posit that when anyone is attacked by a short-haired bully-looking breed, especially in the US, that person is very predisposed to thinking it is a pit bull. It's natural, given all the media coverage.

Instead of breed-specific legislation, we need idiot-specific legislation. Don't ban pits. Bar people with a history of owning aggressive dogs from getting any more dogs.

**Todash** · December 4th, 2012

Something interesting: only one of the dogs below is a pit bull. The others are purebred, but not pits--just breeds commonly mistaken for pit bulls. (There are many more similar breeds, but the MB allows a max of five images per post.) I do not mean to downplay the very real issue of dog attacks, nor the very real appeal that pit bulls have (because of their reputation) for a certain element of society. But misinformation protects no one. It's important in any case to know the truth, or at least to know when we don't know what the truth is.