The One Hundred and Twelfth

[Moderator]

That might be a great place to look to in the budget when fiscal responsibility and trimming the budget is being addressed. Serious question--is that on the tea party agenda?

[JohnDalglish]

The only thing that changed was who signs their checks.

Hi,

But not much.

YOU still do!

Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose yet again (the more things change the more they remain the same)

Long days and pleasant nights

[CorbinKale]

That might be a great place to look to in the budget when fiscal responsibility and trimming the budget is being addressed. Serious question--is that on the tea party agenda?

Yes. What is in doubt is whether the TEA Party candidates will keep their promises, or turn into Republicans.

[Moderator]

At least on that topic (continuing to fund the war in Afghanistan), I hope they stay true to their promises.

[kingricefan]

Yup, just ask Halliburton.

Don't get me started. Don't even get me started! (I am the founding member of the I Hate Halliburton club)

[Tery]

Hmmm... debt vs. deficit vs. GDP

Here's a fact: the last time the debt was paid was during Andrew Jackson's Administration, when the public debt was paid. The result was that Martin Van Buren, Jackson's successor became a one-term President, following the panic and very serious depression of 1837. A depression caused, in great part, by a shrinking of private demand caused by Government austerity, the successful pay back of the debt, and the continuing policy of balancing the budget. In addition, every sustained attempt in American history to run budget surpluses was followed by either a depression or a recession. A summary of the depressing record is here.

In fact, the reason why any public debt at all exists right now is because Congress mandates that new debt be issued when the Government deficit spends. So, it's Congress that's been forcing the Treasury to manage the debt through the roll over method, and it is Congress's own fault that the United States has any public debt today.

What about the GOP saying that the debt will soon eclipse our whole economy? I suppose that they mean that its size will soon match our annual GDP. But that's a silly comparison, as is the debt-to-GDP ratio derived from that kind of thinking. The GDP is an annual statistic. The debt (roughly) is the accumulation of deficits since Andrew Jackson last paid it off in January of 1835. So the proper comparison, if they wanted to make it, would be the national debt compared to the sum of the annual GDP since 1835. I won't calculate that sum, but clearly the close to $14 Trillion national debt is a very, very small proportion of the GDP since that time.

To tell the truth though, neither the size of the national debt, nor the debt-to-GDP ratio are relevant to the capacity of the Government to spend either in the present, or in the future, because their size has nothing to do with the Constitutional authority of the US Government to issue currency and create money, and also has nothing to do with the solvency of the United States Government.

There is much more to this equation and it's admittedly not easy to slog through. But the GOP hopes that you will feel overwhelmed. That way, they can tell you lies and pat you on the head, then go ahead and help their rich buddies (and themselves) get richer. But do yourself a favor and learn about this:

http://neweconomicperspectives.blogs...del-of_26.html

[MrsSmeej]

"Hi,

Stopping fighting illegal imperialist foreign wars"(Plural?) "might be a start.

Regime 'change' in Iraq was a lot of bangs for a LOT of bucks, was it not?

Long days and pleasant nights"

John, I hope you know I hold you in highest regard.
Therefore, disagreeing with you's really very hard.
But (although we both agree when speaking of Iraq)
Now we're in Afghanistan there is no turning back.

We cannot just say we'll stay and then go off and leave
Abandoning civilians in the tangled webs we weave.
We have made commitments and, no matter what the cost,
We have got to honor them or else the region's lost.

If we let the Taliban return - if they should win
It's a very ugly mess we'd leave that country in.
We went there and broke it. Now we own it. That's the deal.
We cannot just run away; not while the threat is real.

[JohnDalglish]

John, I hope you know I hold you in highest regard.
Therefore, disagreeing with you's really very hard.
But (although we both agree when speaking of Iraq)
Now we're in Afghanistan there is no turning back.

We cannot just say we'll stay and then go off and leave
Abandoning civilians in the tangled webs we weave.
We have made commitments and, no matter what the cost,
We have got to honor them or else the region's lost.

If we let the Taliban return - if they should win
It's a very ugly mess we'd leave that country in.
We went there and broke it. Now we own it. That's the deal.
We cannot just run away; not while the threat is real.

Hi,

True, Mrs Smeej.

But perhaps if America's foreign policy hadn't been so disastrously short sighted a few years ago when Russia was involved in Afghanistan and America armed and trained the Mujhaddin to fight the Russians (the same people as the Taliban after all) it might have been a very different struggle today.

But once again America was too gung-ho to bring down communism as to see al-quaeda hiding under the bed.

For which America and its allies are paying in blood in the deaths and injuries suffered daily by our young people fighting an enemy that Russia, Germany and Britain (quite heavy hitters!) have all failed to subdue in the past and have ALL slunk away with their tales between their legs, a fate that I rather suspect awaits America and its allies this time around.

Long days and pleasant nights

[CorbinKale]

Hmmm... debt vs. deficit vs. GDP

*snip*
There is much more to this equation and it's admittedly not easy to slog through. But the GOP hopes that you will feel overwhelmed. That way, they can tell you lies and pat you on the head, then go ahead and help their rich buddies (and themselves) get richer. But do yourself a favor and learn about this:

http://neweconomicperspectives.blogs...del-of_26.html

Great post! What you say about the GOP is true, but you missed one important point. The Democrats do the same things as the Republicans, but slightly faster. Until we can drop the partisan loyalties, the Democrats and Republicans will keep us locked in this spiral.

[Tery]

Perhaps, Corbin. But the GOP are the ones making the noises about cuts right now. And they currently control the House. So they are the ones I'm more focused on at this time. Believe me, I will attack any Dems who go along with this madness. I'm no fan of Blue Dogs.