what is god to you/what do you revere?

[vickilynn]

It's a reference to Carrie, which I don't think you've read (yet). (I think the first King book you've read is Under the Dome, right?)
Anyway, it's a roundabout way to say that Carrie's mother has a God complex...and she's one scary broad. (She's a fervent religious nutjob, fruiter than Fruity Pebbles.)

I've probably seen the movie but it's sooooo long ago it's too vague now. I'm aware how the media enjoys making a mockery of certain things. I may have read other SK books since I've been reading for a long, long time so at this point I just don't remember.

[vickilynn]

Balderdash.
Two groups are just meanderin' along justa singin' a song, they spot a mouse and exclaim upon it's size, one group is made up of fleas, the other, elephants, them flea's say said mouse is rather large, big ol' elephants of course say, 'What that itty bitty teeny tiny thang?', so now tell me, which group is correct???
Perspective comes in all sizes and packages, could be sensory based, could be in life, and no one thing is only thing, or at least I ain't found it, Aristotle and his contradictory non-contradictions be damned.

This isn't the kind of thing I'm talking about. What if one person believes the moon is made of cheese and another that it is rock? By what perspective could it be made to be made of cheese? I doesn't become cheese because of someone's sincere belief. Neither do a thousand differing and opposing "truths" become so just because of someone's sincere belief. I don't believe in this "create your own reality" stuff.

[Moderator]

This isn't the kind of thing I'm talking about. What if one person believes the moon is made of cheese and another that it is rock? By what perspective could it be made to be made of cheese? I doesn't become cheese because of someone's sincere belief. Neither do a thousand differing and opposing "truths" become so just because of someone's sincere belief. I don't believe in this "create your own reality" stuff.

What you dismiss as the create your own reality stuff is very real to those who are of a different spiritual persuasion than yours. How you believe is your truth but we do not have any quantifying scientific way to verify that there is the God you (or others) believe in or to disprove those who think differently are not correct in their beliefs or even that you're all right, which is why it is called faith.

[PatInTheHat]

This isn't the kind of thing I'm talking about. What if one person believes the moon is made of cheese and another that it is rock? By what perspective could it be made to be made of cheese? I doesn't become cheese because of someone's sincere belief.

Um, sure, mm hmm, 'k, hmm, that's exactly the same thing huh ?
Yeah I know that's not quite what your talking about, though t'would make it much more convenient for ya if it was, is what I'm reckonin'.

[Robert Gray]

This isn't the kind of thing I'm talking about. What if one person believes the moon is made of cheese and another that it is rock? By what perspective could it be made to be made of cheese? I doesn't become cheese because of someone's sincere belief. Neither do a thousand differing and opposing "truths" become so just because of someone's sincere belief. I don't believe in this "create your own reality" stuff.

Not to be put too fine a point on it, but isn't "faith" exactly that? You have chosen to believe something that you cannot empirically prove. I suspect that anyone of a different opinion is going to suggest that you are simply living in a subjective reality of your own choosing. The reason we know the Moon is made of rock today is because of science. We have been there. We brought back rocks and not big hunks of cheese.

Most religions are based on faith. You have every right to be as dismissive to the beliefs of others as you wish, but do not pretend that yours have anymore basis in provable fact. C.S. Lewis, a very popular writer was a devout Christian, but you would not deem him so. If you have read the various books in his Narnia series, specifically The Last Battle, you would find that Mr. Lewis made a very telling statement about God (personified as Aslan). In short, a Prince of another land approaches and speaks with Aslan to pay his respects but thinks he will not be judged worthy or allowed into Heaven. He states honestly that he never knew of Aslan and paid his respects to another entity. God (Aslan) replies that every good deed he ever did was automatically rendered to him. God (Aslan) indicates that salvation is indeed possible simply by living a good life. By your comments, Mr. Lewis would be a heretic for even suggesting this idea.

Unlike others, I'm not going to pile into you for being dedicated to your beliefs even if they are by nature exclusionary, intolerant, and self serving. What you are doing is a fulcrum of human nature. We all want to believe that we know the secret to life, the magic formula, and that we are somehow special (read better) than everyone else. It makes one feel included. Such notions clearly define the world in black and white in a way that is convenient and non-threatening. It is less work than trying to reconcile all these other ideas and philosophies. Faith comes good and bad. On the one hand it can help someone overcome impossible pain, problems, and provide a framework to get through the day. On the other hand, it is the spiritual version of Alexander cutting the Gordian Knot. Rather than solve the puzzle and seek truth, one take an intellectual shortcut (or end run).

Please bear in mind that I am not talking about the validity or your (or anyone else's) particular faith. Who is right and who is wrong is irrelevant to the discussion because nobody can prove anything. This brings us back to my first point and why people have "faith" to begin with. Discussions like this one, by their very nature, tend to be worthless. If you have faith, nothing anyone says or demonstrates (even if they can empirically prove you are wrong) is going to change your mind. Do you see where I'm going with this?

[GNTLGNT]

Um, sure, mm hmm, 'k, hmm, that's exactly the same thing huh ?
Yeah I know that's not quite what your talking about, though t'would make it much more convenient for ya if it was, is what I'm reckonin'.

....duhhhhhh, where are da mouses Pat...huh, huh, huh?.....

[PatInTheHat]

....duhhhhhh, where are da mouses Pat...huh, huh, huh?.....

They went dat away! >>>---------->
.................................................. ..................yeah yeah wrong way

[not_nadine]

I like cheese.

[Chuggs]

As a basic statement--not wanting to delve too deeply here, at this moment in time--I'll simply say that God is the creator of all things.

[guido tkp]

ms mod @ 153& R gray @ 155: great, thoughtful stuff...love that cs lewis stuff... good call