what is god to you/what do you revere?

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Originally Posted by vickilynn

I can agree with some of what you say here. However...respectfully, where the Bible clearly speaks Christians can speak. And it clearly says that those who don't come to Christ and believe on Him won't be saved therefore any Christian has authority to say that those who come to Christ will be saved and those who don't won't. I don't agree with this "I'm ok, you're ok" philosophy that's been around for quite some time. Those lost outside of Christ are not ok. Nor do I think it's ok to be haughty or arrogant in presenting the truth. I try not to be but I'm sure I don't always succeed. There are those who are better at saying things than I am.

Here's a little something about Christians and making judgments.

http://www.highlandpc.com/articles/makejudg.php

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I personally believe that there are those of faith that are not Christian who are just as loved and accepted by their higher power and who in their daily lives treat others as a higher power would wish them to do. I am not, however, going to try to convert anyone else to my way of thinking as I believe my connection with my higher power is a personal one and the only authority I have to answer to. And further, I believe there is a place for all those interpretations of spirituality to co-exist.

I was always afraid of Carrie's Mother.

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Originally Posted by Moderator

I personally believe that there are those of faith that are not Christian who are just as loved and accepted by their higher power and who in their daily lives treat others as a higher power would wish them to do. I am not, however, going to try to convert anyone else to my way of thinking as I believe my connection with my higher power is a personal one and the only authority I have to answer to. And further, I believe there is a place for all those interpretations of spirituality to co-exist.

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Thanks for the input though I disagree with it. I know there are a multitude of beliefs out there but I believe there's only one truth for everyone whether they ever accept it or not. If two different groups believe the exact opposite, one can be right and one wrong, both can be wrong, but both can't be right. I don't believe there are many "higher powers" or in "create your own realty." But, as I said, there are a multitude of beliefs out there and everyone is free to believe as they choose. Appreciate you sharing yours.

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Originally Posted by not_nadine

I was always afraid of Carrie's Mother.

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Not sure how that relates to the question of the OP. Can you be more specific?

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Speaking as someone who taught Sunday school for 12 years and also served as a deacon body leader for 7 years, I respectfully disagree with you.....
No where in the Bible are we told that we can make any sort of judgments about others. In fact, the Bible gives some very specific reasons not to be judgmental. (See Matthew 7)
And while the Bible does name some sins specifically, it also states that all sins are the same in the eyes of God....this means that if I happen to have an affair, it is no different than someone else stealing food to God's way of seeing things.
At no point does Jesus tell us that we are to haughilty flaunt our beliefs at others, nor are we to comdemn them for believing differently.
We are told to love one another....Jesus even says that this is greatest commandment of all.....simply to love one another.
Judgement of who will or who won't be saved is God''s business, and His alone.
Yes, Jesus did say to spread the gospel throughout the world.....but at no time did he say to condemn anyone else while doing so.

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I don't think the Bible condemns judging; what it does condemn is unrighteous judgment, or hypocritical judgment. Mathew 7:1 does contain the admonition to "judge not, lest ye be judged," but it is more fully explained in subsequent verses when Jesus asks, " And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" In other words, why are you judging someone else for his sins while failing to see your own sins which are even worse? Mathew 7:5 then explains that if you remove the beam from your own eye, you will then see clearly to cast out the mote in your brother's eye. So judgment itself is not condemned. In John 7:24, we are actually commanded to judge, but not according to one's appearance, rather we are told to make 'righteous judgments." Not only that, but Mathew 18:15-17 says that unrepentant churchgoers are to be removed from the church, something that couldn't be done unless judgment is passed as to their worthiness.

I fully agree with you however that Christ's Great Commission does not give Christians a license to be disrespectful to others beliefs or to do it in any way other than according to the precepts of love. As 2 Timothy 4:2 says, we are to preach the word, correct, rebuke, reprove and exhort, but we are to do it with all long suffering (patience).

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Originally Posted by the_last_gunslinger

I don't think the Bible condemns judging; what it does condemn is unrighteous judgment, or hypocritical judgment. Mathew 7:1 does contain the admonition to "judge not, lest ye be judged," but it is more fully explained in subsequent verses when Jesus asks, " And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" In other words, why are you judging someone else for his sins while failing to see your own sins which are even worse? Mathew 7:5 then explains that if you remove the beam from your own eye, you will then see clearly to cast out the mote in your brother's eye. So judgment itself is not condemned. In John 7:24, we are actually commanded to judge, but not according to one's appearance, rather we are told to make 'righteous judgments." Not only that, but Mathew 18:15-17 says that unrepentant churchgoers are to be removed from the church, something that couldn't be done unless judgment is passed as to their worthiness.

I fully agree with you however that Christ's Great Commission does not give Christians a license to be disrespectful to others beliefs or to do it in any way other than according to the precepts of love. As 2 Timothy 4:2 says, we are to preach the word, correct, rebuke, reprove and exhort, but we are to do it with all long suffering (patience).

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You've said it well.

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Originally Posted by vickilynn

Not sure how that relates to the question of the OP. Can you be more specific?

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It's a reference to Carrie, which I don't think you've read (yet). (I think the first King book you've read is Under the Dome, right?)
Anyway, it's a roundabout way to say that Carrie's mother has a God complex...and she's one scary broad. (She's a fervent religious nutjob, fruiter than Fruity Pebbles.)

Vickilyn: The link you provided is really just one man's opinion, and he uses partial verses and combines them in order to make his point. I also notice that he uses the terms "discernment" and "judgment" interchangeably. While these words are related, they have entirely different meanings. I could write an essay using these very same verses, and it would have an entirely different viewpoint. Not saying there's anything wrong with your viewpoint, or the author of the article......just it's gonna take a lot more than that to change my view. A whole lot more.

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Originally Posted by the_last_gunslinger

In John 7:24, we are actually commanded to judge, but not according to one's appearance, rather we are told to make 'righteous judgments." Not only that, but Mathew 18:15-17 says that unrepentant churchgoers are to be removed from the church, something that couldn't be done unless judgment is passed as to their worthiness.

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Not exactly......We can't just take one line or verse from a passage of scripture, and skew it to fit what we want it to say. Well, we can, but that's where we get in trouble.
We have to read an entire section in order to take into account the context.
In the passage from John 7......Jesus had just healed a man on the Sabbath, and the "church" was upset with him for doing so.....they even accused him of being demon possessed.
In reply, Jesus told them that if they were allowed to perform a circumcision on the sabbath, and pointed out that this was passed down from Moses and the patriarchs, then why shouldn't he, the SON heal a man on the sabbath.....When he told them to judge correctly, he was referring to the judgements they were making about him. He wasn'tr commanding them to go out and judge the world.
I don't want to get into the Matthew 18 verse.......I will say that I don't believe that Jesus meant that anyone should be booted out of church.....and just who is going to determine my worthiness??....another human person with as many or more faults as me???....I don't think so.......
But again, we have to look at the entire passage in order to gain the context in which it was written.


I really didn't mean to get into a huge debate here, so this will be my last post in this thread. Love, Limes and Daisies, Y'all ♥

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Originally Posted by vickilynn

If two different groups believe the exact opposite, one can be right and one wrong, both can be wrong, but both can't be right.

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Balderdash.
Two groups are just meanderin' along justa singin' a song, they spot a mouse and exclaim upon it's size, one group is made up of fleas, the other, elephants, them flea's say said mouse is rather large, big ol' elephants of course say, 'What that itty bitty teeny tiny thang?', so now tell me, which group is correct:eyebrow:???
Perspective comes in all sizes and packages, could be sensory based, could be in life, and no one thing is only thing, or at least I ain't found it, Aristotle and his contradictory non-contradictions be damned:wink2:.

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Originally Posted by PatInTheHat

Balderdash.
Two groups are just meanderin' along justa singin' a song, they spot a mouse and exclaim upon it's size, one group is made up of fleas, the other, elephants, them flea's say said mouse is rather large, big ol' elephants of course say, 'What that itty bitty teeny tiny thang?', so now tell me, which group is correct:eyebrow:???
Perspective comes in all sizes and packages, could be sensory based, could be in life, and no one thing is only thing, or at least I ain't found it, Aristotle and his contradictory non-contradictions be damned:wink2:.

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Excellent example, PITH.

Loving people live in a loving world. Hostile people live in a hostile world. Same world-- perception.