Deaf Twins Euthanized

[not_nadine]

Could this be true?

http://fox8.com/2013/01/15/deaf-twins-euthanized/

[~Ally~]

Haven't read your link because I already know about the case. Yes it could be true, and it is true, and personally I applaud their bravery. It is especially amazing that they had the love and support of their family who understood their decision, and their choice. 'Their' being the appropriate word here because it was their choice and whether other people agree with that is irrelevant. These people had already lived a fulfilling life with one disability, and to be told they would lose their other main "sense" is just cruel. People are more than capable of adapting to being deaf if they have their sight to rely on, which these men did. But to then lose your sight would be very frightening. I wouldn't want to live in a world where I couldn't see or hear anything...there would be no enjoyment in that. These men were exceptionally brave to make this choice and hopefully they are at peace now.

[Todash]

I wish they could have seen their way to make a different choice, but I understand why they did what they did. I just hope they were both fully committed to the choice.

[Haunted]

16651

[PatInTheHat]

What an odd feeling, I mean I generally make it a point to admire folks with a doggedly death defying stickwithitness, butt now evidently that's become completely azzbackwards:umm:.
While I support their decision, well after all, it just simply ain't none of my bidness, but I wouldn't go so far as to call 'em brave, 'cause this livin' stuff, it's the hard part:oops:.
Oh sure, dyin' oft times ain't for pusses, butt the eternal Bark-O-Lounger for the sake of lack of perfection and unwelcome change, yeah that's just the lazy daisy easy peasy way out:down:...hmm, butt then maybe I'm just a big fan of uncertainty, discomfort, & mucho misery, or as I like to call it, fine as wine livin', "livin' ", as always, bein' the dandy as candy key word, word:wink2:.

[Moderator]

This is a tough one for me. It's their choice but this is a case that differs for me in the right for assisted suicide. I can totally get behind someone who has a terminal illness and no chance for medical intervention to change the outcome, particularly when end of life would mean extreme pain, being highly medicated to the point of no quality of life, or to be on life support systems. Those people should IMO be able to make the choice to end their life sooner. I wouldn't want to be deaf and blind but there are ways to accommodate and many people live meaningful lives even with those disabilities. Think of the impact Helen Keller made even in an age when we had very little support for people with any disabilities. :dunno: It's their choice, of course, but I'm sad that they chose it.

[Haunted]

This is a tough one for me. It's their choice but this is a case that differs for me in the right for assisted suicide. I can totally get behind someone who has a terminal illness and no chance for medical intervention to change the outcome, particularly when end of life would mean extreme pain, being highly medicated to the point of no quality of life, or to be on life support systems. Those people should IMO be able to make the choice to end their life sooner. I wouldn't want to be deaf and blind but there are ways to accommodate and many people live meaningful lives even with those disabilities. Think of the impact Helen Keller made even in an age when we had very little support for people with any disabilities. :dunno: It's their choice, of course, but I'm sad that they chose it.


Think of the impact Helen Keller made even in an age when we had very little support for people with any disabilities.

I thought of Miss Keller too. I am also deeply saddened that these men gave in to despair. What of the other senses? If they could not see each other they could touch each other. Didn't Miss Keller sign into the hand of the 'listener'? The world is such a wondrous place and with so many possiblities available in this day and age, I feel there is no room for despair. Just so sad.

[~Ally~]

but I wouldn't go so far as to call 'em brave, 'cause this livin' stuff, it's the hard part:oops:.
Oh sure, dyin' oft times ain't for pusses, butt the eternal Bark-O-Lounger for the sake of lack of perfection and unwelcome change, yeah that's just the lazy daisy easy peasy way out

I don't feel they died because they wouldn't be perfect or through laziness. They were already living with being profoundly deaf, so going by that reasoning they were already far from perfect. At least with their sight they could see to maintain their own needs, work, and live an ordinary life but without their sight that would be near impossible. They wouldn't even know if somebody was approaching them, until they felt that persons touch, but even then they wouldn't be able to hear them so wouldn't know what that person wanted. Without sight and hearing the world would be a very intimidating and lonely place.

You don't feel they were brave, and I respect that, but I hope if I was ever in their situation I would be brave enough to make their choice. I have nothing but respect for them, and I find sensational headlines and news reports that don't report the full facts in these type of situations absolutely disgusting.

[Dana Jean]

I hope that all medical options were looked into before they did this. Which I'm sure they did. Cochlear implants, cornea transplants etc.etc... I really think the medical community is on the threshold of reversing some of these things, but I understand their decision.

I read Helen Keller's biography and this woman was amazing. And Miss Sullivan was the epitome of teacher and friend. But, unlike these two, Helen became deaf and blind at a very early stage in her development. This was her world from the get go. And she was a frightened, angry child. These guys would be fully aware of what they were missing. It would be a brain trapped in a shell (almost). Sure, they could walk and move their arms, but what would be the point? I think every person knows what they can overcome, and I think they knew themselves well enough to know that this would be a life they could not enjoy living.

But, having said all that, they didn't even wait around to try to make a new life. They could have tried. People are adaptable. Given a little time, they may have decided it wasn't so bad. I still support their choice those because it was theirs to make.

Personally, I couldn't imagine being trapped with my own thoughts--I would die of boredom in 3 and a half days.

[Shasta]

I agree with Ally on this one.

My opinion is that if someone wants to take their own life I think they should able to, but only after talking to doctors, family members, and really thinking about it. I'm not sure why it's a requirement that anyone should live. While it's not a decision I would make in this case, it's their lives. If they've thought it all out and that's the decision they want to make, why should we force them to live?

[Todash]

My main concern with any multiple suicide is that I always wonder if one person felt more strongly about the issue than the other person. For example, what if it was a pact they had made, but one of the brothers really didn't want to do it or felt conflicted when it became a reality?

[Shasta]

My main concern with any multiple suicide is that I always wonder if one person felt more strongly about the issue than the other person. For example, what if it was a pact they had made, but one of the brothers really didn't want to do it or felt conflicted when it became a reality?

If you can be persuaded to take your own life do you really need to live?

I know that's really, really mean, but come one. There's not much someone could say that would convince me to kill myself, no matter who they are.

[PatInTheHat]

I don't feel they died because they wouldn't be perfect or through laziness. They were already living with being profoundly deaf, so going by that reasoning they were already far from perfect. At least with their sight they could see to maintain their own needs, work, and live an ordinary life but without their sight that would be near impossible. They wouldn't even know if somebody was approaching them, until they felt that persons touch, but even then they wouldn't be able to hear them so wouldn't know what that person wanted. Without sight and hearing the world would be a very intimidating and lonely place.

You don't feel they were brave, and I respect that, but I hope if I was ever in their situation I would be brave enough to make their choice. I have nothing but respect for them, and I find sensational headlines and news reports that don't report the full facts in these type of situations absolutely disgusting.
Oh I dig what your sayin', and on some level I can even appreciate it, but me, I'm goin' out kickin' and screamin', scratchin' & clawin', pissin' pukin' spittin' & fightin' all the way til lights permanently out, if'n I get my druthers that is, pride & dignity, what's that & what's it good for when your curtain's up, 'cause I'm pretty sure I'll feel like I should have time for another joke god dammit:geek:!
Well, you know how I hate to miss somethin' funny, croakin' on down whilst crackin' up, now that would probably put justa wee damper on the jocularity, doncha think:wink2:?
Laugh more, commit suicide less, yeah, that's my motto:y:

[Lily Sawyer]

They were born together and chose to die together, and neither's hand was forced. I think it would have been clear to the doctor involved if this were the case, and had someone else who knew them known (or felt) that one was being co-erced, it would have become an issue as well. Belgium isn't known for having underhanded laws, nor is it known for people who talk out of both sides of their mouths. They have assisted suicide laws that are intact (legal), and doctors are not paid much for the procedure.

Check this out: http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01/14/deaf-twins-killed-by-legal-euthanasia-had-to-search-two-years-before-they-found-someone-who-would-do-it/

How very brave of them and their family, to go the way *they* chose, on *their* terms, being supported by their family. I don't admire suicide at all, but in this case, I think they did the absolutely best humane thing for themselves.

[Todash]

They were born together and chose to die together, and neither's hand was forced. I think it would have been clear to the doctor involved if this were the case, and had someone else who knew them known (or felt) that one was being co-erced, it would have become an issue as well. Belgium isn't known for having underhanded laws, nor is it known for people who talk out of both sides of their mouths. They have assisted suicide laws that are intact (legal), and doctors are not paid much for the procedure.

Check this out: http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01/14/deaf-twins-killed-by-legal-euthanasia-had-to-search-two-years-before-they-found-someone-who-would-do-it/ (http://www.stephenking.com/forums/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.nationalpost. com%2F2013%2F01%2F14%2Fdeaf-twins-killed-by-legal-euthanasia-had-to-search-two-years-before-they-found-someone-who-would-do-it%2F)

How very brave of them and their family, to go the way *they* chose, on *their* terms, being supported by their family. I don't admire suicide at all, but in this case, I think they did the absolutely best humane thing for themselves.
I think that to decide, whichever way you decide, is always brave. Living (however long) consciously requires guts.

But I think it should be difficult to "qualify" to die by euthanasia. It should not be easy to commit to a decision that cannot be reversed. I don't mind that they had to struggle a bit to find a doctor; a commitment to die should be tested, less it become easily misused. Perhaps someday people in their positions will simply be able to have their vision surgically corrected. I wish that had been an option for them.

[Shasta]

It should not be easy to commit to a decision that cannot be reversed.

100% agreed.

I feel the same way about tattoos.

When I was younger I wanted to get my tubes tied. Doctors wouldn't do it because I was too young. I tried and tried and tried. I am now thrilled that they wouldn't as I want a baby very badly.

I think finding a doctor to kill you should be equally as hard, if not more so. Taking your life is a big deal. You should be counseled and talked to and I think people should try to talk you out of it. But I still maintain that it should be your decision to make. Just like tying my tubes would eventually have been. (Most doctors have an age requirement.) I just got lucky that the doctors refused long enough. With death, you can't do that.

[staropeace]

I do not agree with this. If a person is in terrible pain with no chance of getting better then I would wish them to have twilight sleep and withheld life-saving measures. My doc doesn't agree with euthanasis...he thinks there is so much that can go wrong there.

[not_nadine]

I just did not know it was legal.

[GNTLGNT]

...I will not moralize here, but will simply say...I hope they are now at peace and "see" the beauty at the end of their paths...they went out their own way, and I sort of envy that...right or wrong-it was their choice...God rest their souls...

[Shasta]

I do not agree with this. If a person is in terrible pain with no chance of getting better then I would wish them to have twilight sleep and withheld life-saving measures. My doc doesn't agree with euthanasis...he thinks there is so much that can go wrong there.

Of course there's a lot that can go wrong. But a lot can go wrong with drinking, skydiving, or driving a car. Or getting plastic surgery. Or rock-climbing.

I guess I just believe that people shouldn't tell you how to live your life - or death. It is, after all, your life.

But I also think people should do hard drugs and not wear a seat belt or a helmet if they don't want to. (But if they don't, I don't think we should pay for their medical bills!)

[staropeace]

My doctor and I discussed this when we talked about my cancer and how I felt about it all. It is just that he had patients who wasn't sure how they felt and was feeling sorta pressurized by their families to do alternate therapy. I won't go into it much because I find the whole topic depressing. Let us just say there were issues I had not considered. It is a lot to think about.

[if-so-Grrl]

I've given this some serious thought. I am a great lover of life...but to live it out in silence and darkness? No. I think I would make the same choice. I'm glad they had medical help, and that their family was supportive.

[MadamMack]

I wouldn't want to be deaf and blind but there are ways to accommodate and many people live meaningful lives even with those disabilities. Think of the impact Helen Keller made even in an age when we had very little support for people with any disabilities.

Ditto.

[not_nadine]

Well, you would have to have a lot of faith in an afterlife to do this.

[Shasta]

It is a lot to think about.

I couldn't agree with that more.

[Todash]

Of course there's a lot that can go wrong. But a lot can go wrong with drinking, skydiving, or driving a car. Or getting plastic surgery. Or rock-climbing.

I guess I just believe that people shouldn't tell you how to live your life - or death. It is, after all, your life.

But I also think people should do hard drugs and not wear a seat belt or a helmet if they don't want to. (But if they don't, I don't think we should pay for their medical bills!)

Hijack: I would agree if cleaning up a motorcyclist smear on the road didn't cost the rest of us so much money. Fatalities are very, very expensive, much more so than an injury accident. I also suspect that people who are not wearing seatbelts and get in accidents have a higher chance of losing control of their vehicles and thus costing the lives of others, but I have never seen any hard facts to support that. It's just a hunch on my part. AND I think that people who don't wear helmets/seatbelts are kind of *******s because they are putting their own minor physical discomfort ahead of their families' livelihood and feelings. (I have a BIL who doesn't wear a seatbelt, even when his kids are in the car. That ONE fact takes my respect for him down to about a quarter of what it would be otherwise.)

But hey, if you want to inject heroin into your eyeballs, knock yourself out, dumbass. (Sorry, but look, at this point we all know that drugs are addictive. I have sympathy for the addiction and support trying to help a user get off the drugs, but not a huge amount of sympathy for that first huff/sniff/injection/smoke. It's a dumb thing to do, no matter how you look at it.)

Okay, no more hijack.