Seniors Decry Ban On Their Christmas Tree

[Out of Order]

Sometimes I just want to cry...............

http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_22133907/seniors-decry-ban-christmas-tree-their-complex-newhall

[Shasta]

I really, really wish I was rich. I would buy every one of them their own little tree and decorations.

This is sick.

[staropeace]

Sometimes I want to cry along with you. It seems only the Christians are expected to hush up about our beliefs and our symbols. Christmas is a magical time when people can enjoy family and the giving that goes along with it. It is the same here in Canada. Our countries were founded on the Christian faith but now all of the traditions are considered wrong and offensive. I saw a commercial the other day talking about folks having a white "holiday". Bing Crosby must be spinning in his grave. How foolish are the politically correct.....we now have Holiday spheres instead of Easter eggs. I know the church took the pagan holidays and used them for ourselves but what the hay? I nice Christmas tree never hurt anyone. I am thinking of putting a creche on my front yard.

[kingricefan]

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

[Todash]

That's just silly. It's not a government building, even. (And even then, notice the White House has a Christmas tree?)

I would say that as long as it's equal-opportunity (that is, Jewish residents feel free to display menorahs, etc.), which means no one is being discriminated *against*, then it should be fine.

[Sepia and Dust]

That's just silly. It's not a government building, even. (And even then, notice the White House has a Christmas tree?)

I would say that as long as it's equal-opportunity (that is, Jewish residents feel free to display menorahs, etc.), which means no one is being discriminated *against*, then it should be fine.

They made them take down the menorahs, too. This kind of crap just burns me up.

[Shasta]

We are having this big problem in Santa Monica right now that reminds me of this.

Long story short, there have been nativity scenes in a park by the beach for 60 years. Some athiest group came in and freaked out and now they can't have them. They even created anit-religion scenes before getting the nativity scenecs banned.

I would like to say that I am 100% non-religious. 100%. Firm. But this infuriates me! A nativity scene in NOT going to make me suddenly religious but it is a tradition about Christmas that I love. I also don't believe in Santa but if he was banned I would hurt someone.

Why do we suddenly need to ban all traditions and cower away from religion? You CAN choose not to believe in something. A Christmas tree shouldn't make you feel forced to be Christian. A dredel shouldn't make you feel forced to be Jewish. A ridiculous anti-religion scene shouldn't force you to be athiest.

(And how come athiests don't see a difference between forcing religion and forcing atheism?)

I feel like all of this anti-religion stuff is impeding on my right to enjoy Christmas!!!

[atomicinchworm]

I actually find hyper atheists hilarious. I the same way I find super religious people hilarious. Their hypocrisy is so insane.

I'm an atheist in the sense that I probably don't believe in God. (Mostly, I just don't think it matters very much.)

But come on. Chirstmas trees/ menorahs/ religious symbols aren't hurting anybody. They aren't putting anybody down. They aren't spewing hate from their plastic fronds. And you aren't going to develop spontaneous Christianity because you saw them.

Hell, I put up a Christmas tree/ Festivus tree/ Winter Solstice tree because I like the holiday and think they are pretty.

I hate when people make themselves into victims. The angry atheists are the ones that give the rest of us godless heathens a bad name.

[Todash]

(And how come athiests don't see a difference between forcing religion and forcing atheism?)

I feel like all of this anti-religion stuff is impeding on my right to enjoy Christmas!!!
A park is kinda iffy because it's public property, so I can sort of see that ... but I think you could make a strong case for letting it stay, too. I was thinking about that judge that had a statue (I think) of the 10 commandments posted outside the courthouse, and thinking about how it feels different, and this is how.

1. The park is public but not related to any government function. (This is the big divider for me.)
2. The display is a temporary thing.
3. The presence of the nativity scene does not imply expected actions or behaviors on the part of anyone seeing it.
4. No tax monies were used to set it up (I assume).
5. Any other group wanting to set up something similarly reflective of their beliefs, including the atheists, would be allowed to do so (again, I assume).

I really do think the dividing line is found in the First Amendment. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." A clear reference to Christianity on a courthouse lawn? Too close, and I certainly wouldn't want to be a defendant or plaintiff in that court if I were an atheist, a Wiccan, a Buddhist, or even the wrong flavor of Christian. And heaven forbid a Muslim think he might obtain justice in that building. But a creche in a park? I don't think it's the same thing.

I think that these are the kinds of discussions we have to have with our heads, not our guts, if we're going to make any progress.

[fushingfeef]

Lots of big corporations here in Pittsburgh have manger scenes prominently displayed--along with menorahs, etc. Usually there's a small placard that says "Donated by ..."

[Shasta]

Terminator T - Yes, you are correct in all aspects. Last year the atheist group actually got MORE spots than the church group yet they still fought to have them banned.

Well, someone donated prviate property to the church and now all the scenes are up and the atheists can't get in. If they had just calmed down they could have kept getting their message together as well.

Atom - You are also 100% correct. Hypocrisy. Personally, I'm an agnostic - I don't know and I don't think I'll ever know and I really just want everyone to be as happy as they can be and as kind as they can be!

[Neesy]

Terminator T - Yes, you are correct in all aspects. Last year the atheist group actually got MORE spots than the church group yet they still fought to have them banned.

Well, someone donated prviate property to the church and now all the scenes are up and the atheists can't get in. If they had just calmed down they could have kept getting their message together as well.

Atom - You are also 100% correct. Hypocrisy. Personally, I'm an agnostic - I don't know and I don't think I'll ever know and I really just want everyone to be as happy as they can be and as kind as they can be!

I am curious - what does an atheist put up to display belief in nothing (or in no God or higher power or whatever?)

[kingricefan]

Someone has put up a rather large display next to the freeway of a set of stairs going up to a cross. It is lit up at night. It has been there day-in day-out for about a year and a half. The cross is probably about 6 feet tall, I can't really tell when I'm driving by at 65 miles per hour. It gives me a sense of peace. I keep wondering how long it will be until *someone* decides it's offensive (or an impedement on their religion) and makes the owner of the property remove it? Things are really, really getting out of hand!!!

[Spideyman]

Just does not seem right. The real meaning of this Holiday Season is getting lost more and more. Wonder what the Senior Complex officials would say if they put up a display of wash mops with tinsel and light strings around it. Just not right to take the joy away from these Seniors. Grinch for sure.

[mjs9153]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Xa6c3OTr6yA Kirk and Spock had this figured out a long time ago..the needs of the many,outweigh the needs of the few,or of the one..in other words those selfish bastards that are forcing this stuff on innocent people,on the majority,who have lived with these trappings all their lives,can go suck an egg as far as I am concerned..:mad2:

[bryantburnette]

I would think an old-folks' home would be the last place to ban religious expression. WTF else have those folks got to hang onto?

Maybe Charles Burnside will take care of the managers who made the decision...

[GNTLGNT]

...here's where the seniors all need to band together, save up their Metamucil-bake a cake and send it to the sh**heads who came up with this @#$#%^&*!@##$ "rule"...

[Out of Order]

...here's where the seniors all need to band together, save up their Metamucil-bake a cake and send it to the sh**heads who came up with this @#$#%^&*!@##$ "rule"...

Now that's an idea I can get behind.................!

[mjs9153]

I am curious - what does an atheist put up to display belief in nothing (or in no God or higher power or whatever?)

Ha that reminds me of the old Boys Town,with Spencer Tracy and Mickey Rooney and the kid tells Mickey,"Father lets us all pray,in our own way,Catholic,Protestant,Jewish,or whatever..and if you want to be nothing,why you just go on and be nothing,no one cares.."

[fushingfeef]

I think the biggest problem that government offices have is, if they allow one religion to display stuff, they have to allow them all, since the government has no official religion. It's not enough that Christianity is currently the most popular religion in this country (or is it? I could be talking out of my butt on that). Being that anyone can start a religion about anything and file some paperwork and be officially recognized as a religion, they would have to be prepared to see some pretty outrageous displays.

Now, in the case of this privately owned apartment complex, the owners can legally set whatever rules they want, but they do have to be prepared for the fallout (and negative publicity) of that decision. I feel bad for the residents because they don't have the flexibility to just move to another apartment. This isn't like choosing a different restaurant because one has a rule not allowing children--many of these people are likely living there because it's the only place they can afford, etc.

[Moderator]

It might affect their future business, though, but hopefully they'll realize that they made a mistake in judgment and change their policy. The least they could have done was take a survey of their residents and then if there were any objections find a way to accommodate people's wishes. This is a case of political correctness and lack of common sense going way over the line IMO.

[blunthead]

I heard a commentator say that atheists, who believe there's no God, have what they believe on display on virtually every street corner. There's Nothing there.

[Shasta]

I am curious - what does an atheist put up to display belief in nothing (or in no God or higher power or whatever?)

There was one that just had a banner with some little figures that said "What do the Easter Bunny, Jesus, and Santa all have in common? They're all made up by man." Or something like that. I can't say I paid too much attention to the atheist ones.

[Out of Order]

Christmas Tree NOT Banned IN Washington................Lighting of The NATIONAL Christmas Tree..........

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2244302/Christmas-2012-Obama-family-lights-National-Christmas-tree-festive-ceremony-Washington.html

[staropeace]

I cannot understand why some folks want to rid the world of beauty. I do not think a christmas tree would cause folks much misery and grief. I know some Jewish friends who actually put up a christmas tree along with their own celebrations. Their children expect it. These folks say they are doubly blessed. One doesnt have to believe in order to enjoy this wonderful holiday. I get my beer at a liquor store up the street and I went there last christmas season to buy some wine for the dinner. It was Christmas eve and the straff were all wearing santa hats. These people are from the middle east and arent Christian but they were having a lovely time. It is mostly the politically correct folks who cause the problem. Ordinary people of every creed just go about their business.

[Neesy]

Do they have piped in music as well - e.g. "Stairway to Heaven" by Led Zeppelin? :wink2:

[Shasta]

I cannot understand why some folks want to rid the world of beauty. I do not think a christmas tree would cause folks much misery and grief. I know some Jewish friends who actually put up a christmas tree along with their own celebrations. Their children expect it. These folks say they are doubly blessed. One doesnt have to believe in order to enjoy this wonderful holiday. I get my beer at a liquor store up the street and I went there last christmas season to buy some wine for the dinner. It was Christmas eve and the straff were all wearing santa hats. These people are from the middle east and arent Christian but they were having a lovely time. It is mostly the politically correct folks who cause the problem. Ordinary people of every creed just go about their business.

My husband's dad did that for him (Jewish). He said (and still says), "A tree is not going to affect my son's faith." Though, my husband is pretty non-religious (as is his father) so I'm not sure this counts. And my Jehovah's Witness grandmother (and the most perfect person who ever existed) celebrated birthdays and holidays after I was born because she said there was no way Jesus wouldn't want her to celebrate her love for her family.