Pit Bulls

[Sigmund]

Hi, Everybody.

I pray all are doing well or getting better.

I had a terrifying experience today. I went to a friends house to take her to run errands. She was waiting for me at her gate and I went to help her walk to my truck and get her in. (She is an older woman and has trouble walking.) Just as I was getting to the gate she yelled, "Siggie! Get in, get in!" That's when I heard running and growling behind me. I grabbed the gate and swung around to close it behind me. I looked and there was a humongous pit bull at the gate. His head and one leg was in between the gate and the post. He was growling and snapping trying mightily to push his way in. I was trying to stay away from his jaws and push the gate closed. There was another pit bull mix dog right behind him and he started to charge the gate. I had no idea just how strong and determined these animals could be. I was terrified. I KNEW if this dog got in I would be knocked down almost immediately and be mauled. I thought, "These two dogs are going to knock me down and tear me to pieces. There's no way my friend will be able to help me. I'm going to die a long, painful death. Good Lord! What if one attacks me and the other turns on my friend?!!! Will anyone hear our screams? How long will it be before help arrives? Will either of us survive?" (It's amazing how many thoughts fly through your mind in such a situation.)

We finally managed to get the gate shut and and latched but they kept charging the gate. I yelled to my friend to get into the house but she moves very slowly and she would have to get up the stairs. Then she would have to unlock the door. Time, time. We needed TIME. The gate was taking a beating and I was afraid it would not hold. What to do? Stay at the gate and try to keep it from giving or back up and see if I could find something to use as a weapon? The main, full bred pit bull was now trying to squeeze through the gate and fence post. I was backing up and trying to think what to do. Seeing that ferocious determined dog fighting to get in...I never in my life wanted my 38 pistol in my hand more than at that instant. I would not have hesitated a nanosecond shooting those two dogs to death.

After an eternity the dogs owner came and was able to leash the dogs and drag them back to her house (two house down). Even then, in their yard they were charging their fence.

I an avowed animal lover. After today's experience I am convinced. There is no such a thing as a 'good' or 'safe' pit bull dog. That owner could not control her dogs-they were hell bent to attack us. You can show me a gazillion pictures of your pit bull laying lovingly next to your newborn baby and you can show me a million research articles stating pit bulls can be trained and controlled. I won't believe it.

It is late evening and I do believe I will sit here and have myself a good long cry. I truly feel I narrowly escaped death today.

Peace.

[Vose]

I'm sorry that you had to go through this, but I'm very glad that you are safe, Sigmund! This is a debate that has plagued me for some time. I personally wouldn't want to keep any dog that's big enough to kill me, but I know that there are lots of people who would stake all they have on how safe pitbulls are - that they are only dangerous because they've been taught to be so or beaten to that point. All animals can be dangerous, and this owner is certainly not doing a good job of containing his animals.

I fear you're in for quite an earful - I trust that people will take your horrible situation in to account and go easy (argue their point, ok, but not berate your for your opinion).

[GNTLGNT]

...I am SO very thankful you and your friend escaped the tragedy Sig, the big guy upstairs was truly watching out for you...AND I understand your feelings, but I will maintain there are bad dogs-just like bad humans-a lot of it is nature vs nurture...and not ALL pit bulls are bad-nor are all humans...

[Todash]

I'm so sorry that you had that experience! But I have to tell you that the animals you saw were very, very, very likely NOT pit bulls. Pits are not only unfairly maligned in the media, they are actually NOT easy to visually identify, even for an experienced person. It's very common for someone to assume an attack was perpetuated by a pit bull without actually verifying it. The main thing you said that made me think they are not pits is that you classified them as large dogs. Pit bulls are actually typically not particularly large. The American Pit Bull Terrier, specifically, weighs anywhere from 30 to 65 pounds. Not a lap dog, but certainly there are much bigger dogs out there.

In addition, pit bulls are not typically aggressive toward people. They do have a tendency to be aggressive toward other dogs, so anyone getting a pit really needs to make sure their dog is properly dog-socialized, i.e., spend quite a bit of time at the dog park and such. But pits typically like people, especially children. It's sad that the media has gotten this mass hysteria thing going on over them, because while it is NEVER EVER a good idea to leave any dog alone with a small child (dogs are animals with a prey drive; let us not forget this), it's a shame that breed-specific legislation has in so many places made it impossible to own a dog that usually adores children.

The dogs you saw, regardless of breed, were dangerous and aggressive and frankly should probably be put down. I'm not saying a pit cannot get that way. ANY dog can. And it IS unfortunate that certain people are drawn to dogs that have been classified as dangerous, such as people who fight dogs or criminals. Those are the same people who, frankly, are inclined to treat their dogs in such a way as to make them as aggressive as possible, but that is a person problem, not a dog problem.

Of course, certain dog breeds do have certain characteristics, and pit bulls have characteristics that would make me not want to own one. But I wouldn't *not* have one because of (supposed) aggression. Rather, it is because they can be a little stubborn and a bit higher energy than I really want in a dog. Every breed does have some negative traits; for example, Basset hounds are strongly food driven and independently like to follow their noses, which means that unless you are holding a dog treat, they often aren't super concerned with what you think.

Again, I completely understand that you had a terrifying experience, and the owner of those dogs should frankly not own dogs. (I know that is harsh, but you could have been hurt, and why the hell were those dogs not contained?) But any decision made purely on emotion is likely not to be logical. I know you know that. What if you had been attacked by a standard poodle? Or a German Shepherd? Or a Chow? In the history of the world, there is probably not one single breed of dog that has not at some point attacked a human.

Regardless, as I mentioned at first, it is actually pretty difficult to identify pit bulls based on sight. I know you think the dogs you saw were pit bulls and pit bull mixes, but check out these links. Each one has one American Pit Bull Terrier on the page, and the pits they show are typical of the breed.

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html (http://www.stephenking.com/forums/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pitbullsonthew eb.com%2Fpetbull%2Ffindpit.html)

http://www.pickthepit.com/ (http://www.stephenking.com/forums/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pickthepit.com %2F)

http://evenchance.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/EC-Find-The-Pit-lores.pdf (http://www.stephenking.com/forums/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fevenchance.org%2Fw p-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F01%2FEC-Find-The-Pit-lores.pdf)

[Becks19]

I an avowed animal lover. After today's experience I am convinced. There is no such a thing as a 'good' or 'safe' pit bull dog

Sigmund, I am so sorry that you had such a frightening experience. The dogs aren't to blame here, it's the owner. No dog is inherently bad. When you have a dog such as a pit bull, Rottweiler, German Shepherd, Doberman, etc what you do when they are a puppy makes all the difference. ( in fact it is critical) If you do not socialize these types of dogs( with people, pets, kids, noises, traffic, wheelchairs) at an early age so that they can distinguish between a friendly person or a threat, you will have a monster on your hands. The dog will assess everyone and every thing as a threat. They are a time bomb waiting to go off and someone will get hurt. Some people have no business having powerful breeds of dogs. It sounds to me like you ran into and extremely bad and irresponsible owner. I am glad that you are OK. I will argue that in the right hands any breed of dog including the pit bull can and will make a safe and loyal family pet. I know, I have had two of them. ( Maxine whom I rescued from the pound has a ton of pit bull in her, any stranger can pet her any time. in fact she is a ham for attention)

[Todash]

I'm sorry that you had to go through this, but I'm very glad that you are safe, Sigmund! This is a debate that has plagued me for some time. I personally wouldn't want to keep any dog that's big enough to kill me, but I know that there are lots of people who would stake all they have on how safe pitbulls are - that they are only dangerous because they've been taught to be so or beaten to that point. All animals can be dangerous, and this owner is certainly not doing a good job of containing his animals.

I fear you're in for quite an earful - I trust that people will take your horrible situation in to account and go easy (argue their point, ok, but not berate your for your opinion).

Aww ... I can't imagine anyone would berate our dear Sig! She had an awful experience, and it is just part of the human condition that emotions are inherently more convincing than statistics. But we also have, as SK rightly has pointed out, big ol' Boeing 747 brains, and really it's better when we can take a step back from our emotions and make sure they're guiding us in the right direction. There is a LOT LOT LOT of misinformation out there about pit bulls, and only people who stumble across that fact realize it. The rest of us just naturally assume that the media is doing its due diligence when reporting this stuff, and in this case they're just not. Not Sig's fault at all!!

[JellybeanJay]

Oh Sig, that is awful but I am so happy to hear that you are okay!

I have to agree with you, I am not a pitbull fan. I find them to be a very aggressive and dangerous dog. I was walking to school with my kids the other day and we were charged by a pitbull. I was so scared because I had three 3yr olds with me as well as my own two children who are 5yrs and 7yrs, the only thought that went through my mind was how was I going to protect all of these children. We got lucky because the owner came out in the nick of time and managed to gain control of the dog, once I saw that the dog was securely leashed, I gave that woman an earful.

People can quote all the stats they want about what a sweet and gentle breed this dog is but its the stats that show the attacks and maulings that scare me the most.

[Spideyman]

Siggy, I am so sorry you had to experience this awful situation. I am glad you are safe, and yes the Lord was watching and protecting both you and your friend. Thankful!!

I am in complete agreement with GNTLGNT, Todash and Becks. Each has spoken with truth. One must remember: there are no bad dogs, only bad owners. Can not tell you the number of rescues due to lack of care and/or mistreatment. Judge not by breed, but by care/lack of from the owner.

[fljoe0]

Oh Sig, that is awful but I am so happy to hear that you are okay!

I have to agree with you, I am not a pitbull fan. I find them to be a very aggressive and dangerous dog. I was walking to school with my kids the other day and we were charged by a pitbull. I was so scared because I had three 3yr olds with me as well as my own two children who are 5yrs and 7yrs, the only thought that went through my mind was how was I going to protect all of these children. We got lucky because the owner came out in the nick of time and managed to gain control of the dog, once I saw that the dog was securely leashed, I gave that woman an earful.

People can quote all the stats they want about what a sweet and gentle breed this dog is but its the stats that show the attacks and maulings that scare me the most.

A big problem is that a lot of people want mean dogs (for reasons I can not understand) so there are a lot of bad ones out there. When I'm out walking with my dog and a dog charges me, I have no idea if that is a good dog or a bad one. It is very worrisome when I'm out walking. If you have ever owned a dog, you know that no matter what you do, that dog is occasionally get loose. So if you choose to have a mean dog and live in a regular residential neighborhood, you are taking a risk of hurting someone. I don't understand people that want dangerous dogs.

Almost every instance of a pit bull attack I've read about in my area involves a dog that is not licensed and has not had it's shots. The county takes the dog and the idiot owner just goes and gets another one. These dogs are disposable to these owners. I think that maybe making a criminal assault/battery charge against the owner when a dog harms someone might be needed.

[blunthead]

I admit I don't trust Doberman's and Pit Bulls nor their mixes. I woudn't mind owning one, but I wouldn't choose to have one if I also had any other pets.

[Todash]

A big problem is that a lot of people want mean dogs (for reasons I can not understand) so there are a lot of bad ones out there. When I'm out walking with my dog and a dog charges me, I have no idea if that is a good dog or a bad one. It is very worrisome when I'm out walking. If you have ever owned a dog, you know that no matter what you do, that dog is occasionally get loose. So if you choose to have a mean dog and live in a regular residential neighborhood, you are taking a risk of hurting someone. I don't understand people that want dangerous dogs.

Almost every instance of a pit bull attack I've read about in my area involves a dog that is not licensed and has not had it's shots. The county takes the dog and the idiot owner just goes and gets another one. These dogs are disposable to these owners. I think that maybe making a criminal assault/battery charge against the owner when a dog harms someone might be needed.

Agreed. And the stats really need a closer look. The only way to know for sure what the breed of a dog is is to have it genetically tested. I imagine that is done in less than five percent of attack cases, and probably that's a generous estimate. Again, the links I posted below will give you a reliable indicator as to how well you can identify a pit. And remember, that's under no stress. When a dog is charging you with teeth bared and growling, your brain is really more into deciding fight or flight and is not so much worried about identifying the breed. :smile2: I posit that when anyone is attacked by a short-haired bully-looking breed, especially in the US, that person is very predisposed to thinking it is a pit bull. It's natural, given all the media coverage.

Instead of breed-specific legislation, we need idiot-specific legislation. Don't ban pits. Bar people with a history of owning aggressive dogs from getting any more dogs.

[AnnaMarie]

So sorry you went through this, but glad you are OK.

I got cornered by a well trained pet pit bull once. I knew the owners and yes, I am sure of the breed. I had been invited into the house and the dog was fine, but when the owner left the room, the dog decided I should have left too. When the owner came back into the room she realized the dog was getting ready to attack me. She could not physically stop him, and he wasn't listening to her. She picked up her newborn baby and plopped her in my arms, hoping this would show the dog that she trusted me. It worked. but I HAD to leave.

This dog was well trained, but he had made up his own mind. And that's where the problem comes in when you have a dog stronger then you.

[Mary19]

This is an awful experience. Sadly I believe we hear all the bad pit bull stories. I believe bad owners are to blame for most aggressive dogs of all breeds. We need harsher penalties for people who abuse/misuse(not sure thats a word) animals. Not sure about the States but in Canada our laws are a joke when it comes to animal cruelty. All animals have the potential to attack and some people encourage that type of behaviour, often in breeds like pit bulls. I believe if you choose to have a pet it should be part of the family, not locked out in the yard in a cage all day..what's the point?? It makes me VERY sad when I see dogs alone out in the cold, I don't understand why we are allowed to do this.

[Lily Sawyer]

I'm with Siggy on this.

There are no pit bulls out there, or their owners, who will ever convince me that the breed is not dangerous.

I refuse to be around them.

[Mary19]

I just wanted to add something. I had a lab once when my children were little who was a nasty dog. Despite all of our attempts at training/love he was nasty and would snap and bite. In the end we had to put him down which was very sad. I have had pets my whole life so this disturbed me greatly,but it was an example of how some dogs are just mean, labs are supposed to be one of easiest breeds to have. Sometimes there is no explanation.

[PatInTheHat]

I've been growled & lunged at, bitten & mauled, by waayyy more peoples than any amount of pupperonis (birds & lizards too, many stories, perhaps another time:wink2:), yet never a Pit Bull, but for some reason Poodles have this desperate need to puncture me:oo:...that's right, I said, 'Poodles', dammit!.. :dunno:...yeah I don't know what it is neither, but them poofy phroo phrooy Poodles, toy or standard ain't never seemed to make no never mind to 'em, seems not so much a real big fan of a certain, PatTheHat:oops:.

[Todash]

I just wanted to add something. I had a lab once when my children were little who was a nasty dog. Despite all of our attempts at training/love he was nasty and would snap and bite. In the end we had to put him down which was very sad. I have had pets my whole life so this disturbed me greatly,but it was an example of how some dogs are just mean, labs are supposed to be one of easiest breeds to have. Sometimes there is no explanation.
You might find this interesting: one of my nieces has worked with animals all her adult life (and sometimes before), with a focus on dogs. She said she has seen more aggression problems with labs than any other breed. She's not sure why but suspects it's because since they are so popular there are a lot of "backyard breeders" who do not breed for temperament and/or socialize their puppies properly, and then also of course owners who don't work with them as well. Of course plenty of people have labs who absolutely love them and never have a problem with them, but definitely when buying or adopting a pet, you want to look really closely at the individual dog and not go solely by breed.

My roommate had a cat once. She got her as a wee kitten, far too young (I would think) to be feral, and we were both always really kind to our cats and never let anyone abuse them. But this cat ... there was just something wrong with her. She was simply mean to people, though she seemed to get along with other cats just fine. :dunno: My roommate ended up rehoming her with a friend who had a barn, and I gather she enjoyed her life as an antisocial barn cat. I suppose that just like with people, occasionally there can be an animal born who is a "wrong 'un," although most bad pet behavior is human-generated.

[Todash]

I admit I don't trust Doberman's and Pit Bulls nor their mixes. I woudn't mind owning one, but I wouldn't choose to have one if I also had any other pets.
Not sure about Dobermans, but yes, pit bulls can be animal aggressive. Certainly you would want one that was "tested," or young enough that it would be trainable. (Pits also really need a strong hand in training. Not abusive! But someone who is not afraid to be in charge.) Someday I will get a dog, and while it likely won't be a pit (because they are sweet but not the dog for me, and what if we had to move to an area where they're not allowed?), I will probably get a puppy for the first one at least so that the cats and it can be used to each other. For a second dog I would consider getting an adult with a good "other pet" history.

[staropeace]

A friend of mine, who is a nurse, was in emerg when a twelve year old girl's body was brought in....she was killed by a pitbull. That sorta scared me for this breed of dog.

I always carry pepper spray in my pocket when I walk out. It is mostly because I am afraid of something like this happening.

[fushingfeef]

I am so glad you and your friend escaped without injury, Sig. Sounds like a harrowing experience--my heart was beating hard as I read it!

My brother was attacked by a pit bull (he escaped but it tore a hole in his jacket) and my wife's nephew was not so lucky--the dog chewed off and ATE the skin on his wrist, and he lost a lot of blood and had to be flown in a helicopter to the hospital, where they had to graft skin from his thigh onto his wrist. This dog had been chained up in the front yard but the threaded link had worked its way loose as the dog pulled on it in his frenzy. Nonetheless, the owner was found negligent and had to pay damages and the dog was destroyed.

I love dogs but I am mistrustful around all breeds until I get to know them. They are animals and I have to find out if they have been properly socialized before I will interact with a strange dog. As a former paperboy who has been bitten by several different breeds, I have a built-in wariness of dogs until I get to know them. Ironically the ones that have bitten me the most have been the small breeds. But what makes pit bulls dangerous is their incredible jaw stength, they simply do not let go once they've decided they're going to hold you.

[Todash]

I am so glad you and your friend escaped without injury, Sig. Sounds like a harrowing experience--my heart was beating hard as I read it!

My brother was attacked by a pit bull (he escaped but it tore a hole in his jacket) and my wife's nephew was not so lucky--the dog chewed off and ATE the skin on his wrist, and he lost a lot of blood and had to be flown in a helicopter to the hospital, where they had to graft skin from his thigh onto his wrist. This dog had been chained up in the front yard but the threaded link had worked its way loose as the dog pulled on it in his frenzy. Nonetheless, the owner was found negligent and had to pay damages and the dog was destroyed.

I love dogs but I am mistrustful around all breeds until I get to know them. They are animals and I have to find out if they have been properly socialized before I will interact with a strange dog. As a former paperboy who has been bitten by several different breeds, I have a built-in wariness of dogs until I get to know them. Ironically the ones that have bitten me the most have been the small breeds. But what makes pit bulls dangerous is their incredible jaw stength, they simply do not let go once they've decided they're going to hold you.While it's certainly smart to get to know a dog before you trust it, the belief that pit bulls have very strong and/or lockable jaws is extremely common but false. Jaw strength in any dog is largely related to size; pit bull jaw strength has been measured around 235 psi, a little less than a German Shepherd and far less than a Rottweiler. Of course it's still strong enough to cause significant damage, and as I said before, it is always smart to be wary of dogs you don't know (especially chained up dogs; a dog that is chained up and ignored is a bite waiting to happen).

[Sepia and Dust]

A friend of mine, who is a nurse, was in emerg when a twelve year old girl's body was brought in....she was killed by a pitbull. That sorta scared me for this breed of dog.

I always carry pepper spray in my pocket when I walk out. It is mostly because I am afraid of something like this happening.

Don't be lulled into a false sense of security--pepper spray often won't stop any Terrier breed.

The main problem with the various breeds of Pitbulls is a combination of the animal's natural tenacity and the hordes of extremely negligent backyard breeders. As far as I'm concerned, the Pitbull breeds are ruined beyond repair--I don't let them live around my home. The Dobermans were in a similar fix twenty-five years ago, but now they've been mostly successfully bred back into a much more docile breed (How often do you hear of Doberman attacks these days?) I don't think that can happen with the Staffordshires / Pitbulls, though... they're just too far gone.

You kinda have to expect Terriers to be a little psycho, but what really burns me up is how the backyard breeders have turned the super-snuggly, big-but-sweet Rottweiler working dogs into vicious killers.

Glad to hear you're okay, Sigmund.

[~Ally~]

Is there somebody in authority you can complain to about this incident? It sounds like you were extremely lucky not to have been mauled, if these dogs are that aggressive you should report them. It was fortunate nobody was hurt this time, but don't forget your friend lives near these animals and may not be so lucky if it happens again and there's nobody there to protect her. The owners should receive a warning, maybe it will encourage them to control their dogs better and not allow them to roam around in public off-leash.

[Todash]

Something interesting: only one of the dogs below is a pit bull. The others are purebred, but not pits--just breeds commonly mistaken for pit bulls. (There are many more similar breeds, but the MB allows a max of five images per post.) I do not mean to downplay the very real issue of dog attacks, nor the very real appeal that pit bulls have (because of their reputation) for a certain element of society. But misinformation protects no one. It's important in any case to know the truth, or at least to know when we don't know what the truth is.

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/16.jpg http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/11sm.jpg http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/3.jpg http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/13.jpg http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/12.jpg

[gniknehpets]

Siggy I am so sorry this happened to you. You had a right to be terrified for your life, thank God you and your friend are okay.


I'm not going to defend the dogs that attacked Siggy. They obviously have a problem, whether it's their training or their owner. But we need to remember that ANY dog can bite. Even your sweetest little dog that has grown up with the children and has never once shown the least little sign of aggression can bite. A startled or frightened dog can bite.

[atomicinchworm]

I don't expect what I am going to say to change how anyone feels about pit bulls. Firstly, OP, let me say that I am glad you are ok. Dog attacks are scary things.

Full disclosure, I am Todash's niece that she referred to in an earlier post. She invited me onto the forums to look at someone's pretty good beginning paintings (I'm an artist), and I've been kind of lurking like a creeper. I couldn't not respond to this thread, mostly because I have a ton of experience with pit bulls and dogs in general.

I have volunteered with animal control shelters and also have worked in a kennel environment. I have had experience with hundreds of dogs, dare I say thousands? I have been attacked once and bitten two other times. I have been bitten by a miniature schnauzer and a shih tzu. I was attacked by a lab. I will go ahead and state that I am biased towards a fondness for pit bulls. Overall, I have found them to be stable, fun loving little dogs, and I have only met one or two that have made me slightly nervous (they were extremely fearful and undersocialized.)

There are statistically several things that are consistent with fatal dog attacks: unneutered males, multiple dogs, loose dogs, chained dogs, abused or unsocialized dogs. This situation is very unfortunate, and the owner needs to not own dogs. I will go so far as to say that the dogs need to be stripped from her possession and probably destroyed. I have to agree with my aunt that I doubt the dogs were pure pit because it is so hard to identify breeds at the best of times and there is also a biased towards short-haired, athletic, square headed dogs being pit bulls. American Pit bulls Terriers or American Staffordshire Terriers or Staffordshire Terriers ( the purebreds most likely to be targeted by pit bull bans) aren't big dogs (especially the little Staffordshire which maxes out at 45 pounds), which makes me think the main aggressor dog was a mastiff or rottweiler mix, or any one of the very big rarer breeds of dogs which incidently kind of look like pit bulls that are gaining popularity. Frankly, I will go ahead and say that the breed isn't really all that important. While terriers do have a certain amount of gameness and focus which can make them a challenge for some people to handle, it doesn't really make them inherently more dangerous than any other dog. What is important is the situation. Unfortunately, this situation has a lot of the statistical hall marks of a bad dog attack: loose dogs, multiple dogs (was the main aggressor male?), and probably not socialized and definitely not responsibly owned.

I also find a consistency with the kind of area one lives in and the statistical risk of the dogs being dangerous. Poor areas tend to have people that might care for their dogs, but tend to not have the education to know how to properly manage their dogs or can't afford professional training if the dog has earmarks of being a potential nuisance, ect. Or people in poorer areas tend to think that vicious dogs make good guard dogs, which is categorically false. (Good guard dogs are well socialized, well trained and can make a call on what is actually a threat or not.) It is also interesting, but probably not relevant, to note that since the Dog Whisperer has aired, dog bites have gone up.

Statistically, dogs are very safe animals. Even pit bulls are very safe animals. There is no animal as domesticated as the dog. Please also keep in mind that there are MILLIONS of pit bulls type dogs in the United States (probably 15-20 million) and some 160 million dogs in general. Go to an municipal shelter if you doubt the shear number of pit bull types in the states. If human aggression was a pit bull problem, many many more people would be seriously injured or killed than are. Golden retrievers and Labrador Retrievers are among the top biters now, and I have been around far more unstable Labs than unstable pit bulls. Too many people, frankly, get dogs and expect them to manage and train themselves. They stick them in a backyard and do not socialize them or manage their behaviors. This can create an unstable, frustrated, aggressive dog. But, most the time, it does not.

What I would really like to see is more dangerous dog legislation. I'm tired of Breed Specific Legislation, which not only wastes taxpayer money as officers have to respond to the 'oh noes, my neighbor has a pit bull' calls, but it doesn't actually stop dog bites or attacks. People who own dangerous pit bulls, will own dangerous dogs. The breeding or breed of the dog doesn't actually matter that much. The prefect storm that created that killer pit bull easily creates another dangerous dog. If your dog kills some one? You go to prison. Maybe for murder. Your dog maims someone? Assault with a deadly weapon. People needs to be held responsible for their actions and, after all, dogs are just animals.

On that note, I will probably be owning a pit bull with in the next year. My husband's, ironically, only positive interactions with dogs has been with a pair of pit bulls, and he is convinced that they are the perfect dog for us. We have cats, but I am not any more worried about getting a pit bull more than any other dog. I plan on working with the dog to be a therapy dog, because pit bulls need a little bit of positive press for a change. I also feel that it is my responsibility as a dog owner to have my dog be the best canine citizen it can be, regardless of breed. While pit bulls are not a breed for everyone, some of the best dogs I have ever had the pleasure of interacting with have been pit bulls.

[kingricefan]

Siggy, so glad that you and your friend are both okay, other than frayed nerves. Things could've been so much worse, if one or both of those dogs had gotten thru the fence. I am not a dog person, never was and never will be. Just don't trust them. I am a cat person and one reason being that a cat can't bite off my hand or face or rip my throat out! When I was a kid we had a few dogs as pets, but I never did take a real liking to them. All those teeth......... Again, I am so glad that you're okay!!

[Debbie913]

((((Siggie)))) I am so glad you and your friend did not get hurt. I hope you are feeling better now....what a scare!

[mjs9153]

Siggy that was terrible..I am glad you are okay!In case someone suggested it and I missed it,may I reiterate that you should notify the local dog warden and see if he will listen to your story and investigate these animals.You said the owner lived "two houses down" which sounds like a neighborhood,and I hate to think what might happen if these dogs get loose near a little kid,or an older person,though even reasonably fit persons would have a tough time against two dogs..have had my share of close calls with dogs,and keep an eye on them even when they are leashed and being walked,as some owners aren't strong enough to deny a determined animal.I do think the dog warden should look at them,and if he/balks,just have him walk past the fenced in area,that ought to get his attention..I am sorry this happened to you,but glad you are okay!:smile2:

[Todash]

Siggy that was terrible..I am glad you are okay!In case someone suggested it and I missed it,may I reiterate that you should notify the local dog warden and see if he will listen to your story and investigate these animals.You said the owner lived "two houses down" which sounds like a neighborhood,and I hate to think what might happen if these dogs get loose near a little kid,or an older person,though even reasonably fit persons would have a tough time against two dogs..have had my share of close calls with dogs,and keep an eye on them even when they are leashed and being walked,as some owners aren't strong enough to deny a determined animal.I do think the dog warden should look at them,and if he/balks,just have him walk past the fenced in area,that ought to get his attention..I am sorry this happened to you,but glad you are okay!:smile2:
Oh, definitely good point! Sig, if you have not notified the authorities, please do so. Those dogs are going to get to someone eventually. :(

[Becks19]

While it's certainly smart to get to know a dog before you trust it, the belief that pit bulls have very strong and/or lockable jaws is extremely common but false. Jaw strength in any dog is largely related to size; pit bull jaw strength has been measured around 235 psi, a little less than a German Shepherd and far less than a Rottweiler. Of course it's still strong enough to cause significant damage, and as I said before, it is always smart to be wary of dogs you don't know (especially chained up dogs; a dog that is chained up and ignored is a bite waiting to happen).


I remember watching Nat Geo featuring Dr. Brady Barr doing bite force tests on all types of animals, including dogs. The dogs that were tested were the Rottweiler, German Shep, and an American Pit bull Terrier. The results may surprise you. I would never want to be bitten by a rottie he came out on top.

Domestic dogs: 320 LBS of pressure on avg. A German Shepherd Dog, American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT), and Rottweiler were tested using a bite sleeve equipped with a specialized computer instrument. The APBT had the least amount of pressure of the 3 dogs tested.

http://dogfacts.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/national-geographics-dr-brady-barrs-bite-pressure-tests/

[Todash]

I remember watching Nat Geo featuring Dr. Brady Barr doing bite force tests on all types of animals, including dogs. The dogs that were tested were the Rottweiler, German Shep, and an American Pit bull Terrier. The results may surprise you. I would never want to be bitten by a rottie he came out on top.

Domestic dogs: 320 LBS of pressure on avg. A German Shepherd Dog, American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT), and Rottweiler were tested using a bite sleeve equipped with a specialized computer instrument. The APBT had the least amount of pressure of the 3 dogs tested.

http://dogfacts.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/national-geographics-dr-brady-barrs-bite-pressure-tests/ (http://www.stephenking.com/forums/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdogfacts.wordpress .com%2F2008%2F02%2F03%2Fnational-geographics-dr-brady-barrs-bite-pressure-tests%2F)Thanks! I looked for that yesterday, but the link I found was broken. (FYI: Hippopotami have been measured at 1821 pounds. They can snap a croc--or human--in half. :eek2:)

[Becks19]

Thanks! I looked for that yesterday, but the link I found was broken. (FYI: Hippopotami have been measured at 1821 pounds. They can snap a croc--or human--in half. :eek2:)

Todash, you're welcome! Glad I could help! (I know, hippos are responsible for many human deaths...)

[CarrieJo]

Siggie! I'm sorry to hear of your experience! That sounds terrifying. I couldn't imagine what I would have done if I was in your shoes. And I believe that this would have a huge effect on how you look at Pits from now on. They can be extremely dangerous. But that owner shouldn't have those dogs in her care. She cannot handle having dogs that strong and powerful. I'm a huge advocate for the 'dangerous breeds'. Especially Rottweilers. I have my own Grizzly (Rott) and I have worked hard to train him and to make sure he knows what's right and what's wrong. I trust him completely to listen to me and to be kind to those who pose no threat. That being said I would NEVER approach any other Rott, Pit, Shepherd, Doberman, etc... without caution and and an observant eye. You never know what you're going to get. My boyfriend drives drives for FedEx and has tons of stories of all kinds of dogs being intimidating. A couple Labs were getting so intense that he left without even getting out of the truck and their package went with him.
So yes, be very careful around those Pits (or any dog), but I hope you can learn in time to not damn the entire breed.

[Jojo87]

I am so glad to hear you are safe Siggie. And sorry to hear about it.
You and your friend had a guardian angle with you once again.
My friends rottweiler attacked my horse years ago and I was pretty sure that
the dog had killed my pony but nope after we got the dog off my pony, the pony stand up
and only got few scratches on her leg. Again a guardian angle was with us.
Some dogs can be very aggressive. Be careful.

[kingricefan]

I am so glad to hear you are safe Siggie. And sorry to hear about it.
You and your friend had a guardian angle with you once again.
My friends rottweiler attacked my horse years ago and I was pretty sure that
the dog had killed my pony but nope after we got the dog off my pony, the pony stand up
and only got few scratches on her leg. Again a guardian angle was with us.
Some dogs can be very aggressive. Be careful.

A dog brought down your pony??? Now, that IS scary! I'll say it again- cats can't do stuff like this (although my niece has a cat that just scares the bejesus out of me!!).

[Jojo87]

A dog brought down your pony??? Now, that IS scary! I'll say it again- cats can't do stuff like this (although my niece has a cat that just scares the bejesus out of me!!).

Oh yes and we all tried to shout to the dog. But nothing helped and then my friends boyfriend (who's really is the dogs owner)
goes and drag the dog off my pony. Was really scary have to admit that.

[Neesy]

A dog brought down your pony??? Now, that IS scary! I'll say it again- cats can't do stuff like this (although my niece has a cat that just scares the bejesus out of me!!).

Is that what they call a "Dog and Pony Show"?

[Neesy]

Something interesting: only one of the dogs below is a pit bull. The others are purebred, but not pits--just breeds commonly mistaken for pit bulls. (There are many more similar breeds, but the MB allows a max of five images per post.) I do not mean to downplay the very real issue of dog attacks, nor the very real appeal that pit bulls have (because of their reputation) for a certain element of society. But misinformation protects no one. It's important in any case to know the truth, or at least to know when we don't know what the truth is.

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/16.jpg http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/11sm.jpg http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/3.jpg http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/13.jpg http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/12.jpg
Okay - so which one is actually a pit bull? I think the second one from the left is a boxer...

[Sundrop]

(((((Siggy))))) I'm glad noth you and your friend are okay. I probably would have peed my pants from being scared so badly.

[Todash]

Okay - so which one is actually a pit bull? I think the second one from the left is a boxer...

The pit is the tan one in the harness with the blue lead attached. You know, that second one *does* look like a boxer, but it is actually an American Bulldog. (I think the boxer-like markings on this one are tricking you.) Note that these are images taken from breeders' websites and so should be good representations of their breeds.

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/13.jpg

[Neesy]

The pit is the tan one in the harness with the blue lead attached. You know, that second one *does* look like a boxer, but it is actually an American Bulldog. (I think the boxer-like markings on this one are tricking you.) Note that these are images taken from breeders' websites and so should be good representations of their breeds.

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/13.jpg
Well that little guy looks like he might lick your face but that's all. Of course he could just be tasting you first... ha ha just kiddin' This topic is like religion or politics - the kind of thing they told us not to discuss at a Mess Dinner.

[Todash]

Well that little guy looks like he might lick your face but that's all. Of course he could just be tasting you first... ha ha just kiddin' This topic is like religion or politics - the kind of thing they told us not to discuss at a Mess Dinner.

Haha ... Kinda, except this really is a miseducation thing, a case where many, many people believe something that is demonstrably false. And although a lot of people hate BSL (Breed Specific Legislation) because of what it does to the dogs, another reason to dislike it is that it provides a false sense of security. If you are convinced that pits are dangerous and manage to get them outlawed in your city, you might feel safer. But really you're not any safer at all. I completely 100% agree with atomicinchworm that what we really need are consequences for people whose dogs hurt other people.

The person whose dogs attacked Siggy should not own dogs, especially if this kind of thing has ever happened before. And those dogs should be evaluated and probably put down if they cannot be rehabilitated. Sounds harsh, I know, but I've no tolerance for the kind of negligence and/or abuse that leads to dog attacks, and although it's a shame if the dogs cannot be rehabbed, it's not worth the risk for them to be allowed to continue as they are.

[atomicinchworm]

That is the biggest thing is there is a lot of incorrect information surrounding Breed Specific Legislation. BSL does create this sense of false security, but unfortunately the kind of people who have killer pit bulls can easily have a killer rott or German Shepard or husky. Or, as fashion demands, more of these rare breeds like Fila Brasiliero or Cane Corso or boerboel which were actually bred to be highly suspicious of strangers. These breeds aren't that rare anymore, partly I suspect because of breed specific legislation, and you can find quite a few of them in shelters. They have the same tough guy look as a pit, but are much much bigger. Is the answer to just keep banning dog breeds? I don't think so.

It creates, as Todash said, a false sense of security. It has been shown that BSL is not effective in stopping vicious dogs. It doesn't lower dog bites, and it doesn't stop maulings. It wastes tax payer money, and there are a lot of countries and municipalities that are over turning their BSL.

I think stopping people that foster aggressive animals is the answer. Strict dangerous dog laws are actually effective at reducing bites and maulings.

I get a little cray cray about the subject, because I have a genuine affection for pit bulls. Actually I like bully breeds in general. And all of this being said, they are not a breed for every one. It's kind of a shame that they have gotten to be so numerous.

[LongTallSally]

I've been bitten by a Shih-Tzu, a Yorkshire Terrier and an Alaskan Malamute-X-Husky. I've been chased by Doberman Pinschers (2 together). I've helped rehab a pitbull a long time ago. I know pitbulls that are wonderful, sweet animals. I've known them. I've had my hand taken into its mouth by a strange pitbull I'd never met before, so I slid my hand out of its mouth and scratched its ears out there on the street. It was a goofy dog.

The problem is with the individual dogs and how their owners raise and handle them. The problem is not the breed. It's the little yappers that scare me because those puncture wounds from their teeth don't heal well.