Room 237: The Movie

[fushingfeef]

Has anyone heard of this? This is premiering at the Sundance Film Festival this week. Apparently it's a documentary about the many interpretive theories behind the Kubrick version of The Shining.

Here's a link:
http://filmguide.sundance.org/film/120136/room_237

Have you ever seen a hidden message?

In 1980 Stanley Kubrick released his classic horror film, The Shining. Loved and hated by equal numbers, the film is considered a genre standard by many loyalists, while other viewers dismiss it as the lazy result of a legendary director working far below his talent level. In between these two poles, however, live the conspiracy theories of ardent fans who are convinced they have decoded The Shining’s secret messages regarding genocide, government conspiracy, and the nightmare that we call history.

Rodney Ascher’s documentary, Room 237, fuses fact and fiction through interviews with the fans and scholars who espouse these theories, and reworking the film’s scenes forward and backward. Room 237 is about more than people who like a famous movie; its vision encompasses original intent, fair use, analysis, and criticism. It investigates what it means to be a fan—why do we need to find deeper meanings in film, and how do those insights change our lives? - M.P.

[fushingfeef]

Here's a more thorough review...this sounds like a must-see! I was a big fan of "Cinemania" which covered the lives of movie buffs, so this will be right up my alley.
http://ebiri.blogspot.com/2012/01/sundance-review-room-237.html

[muskrat]

I'm still waiting for Room 227: Marla Gibbs and the destruction of modern communism...

[GNTLGNT]

....oh man...you said the "Kubrick" word...you....won't...like...me...when you say that....

http://comicswallpapers.net/wallpapers/full/60780491.jpg

[fushingfeef]

You guys are a bunch of cards, you need to be dealt with...:laugh:

[Bev Vincent]

An article about the documentary at the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/29/movies/room-237-documentary-with-theories-about-the-shining.html).

[exzel]

Yeah, listening to NPR this morning, they discussed ROOM 237 at this year’s Sundance Film Festival. I found it interesting that they discussed things about the movie, things about Kubrick, but not a mention of King in the NPR piece.

I was wondering if Mr. King was approached when they were making the documentary, if he was invited to Sundance for the viewing, and if he has any public opinions on the documentary?

[Moderator]

I was wondering if Mr. King was approached when they were making the documentary, if he was invited to Sundance for the viewing, and if he has any public opinions on the documentary?

My (fuzzy) recollection is that they did ask him about it but he didn't participate. I'm not sure that he's seen it to be able to comment.

[fushingfeef]

Given SK's response to Kubrick's version, I'm guessing he's following the old maxim of "If you dont have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all"

[Lebowski19]

It's about film fanatics and their theories about hidden messages in Kubrick's film.They could have made a documentary like this about alot of movies.It just happens to be about a film that is based on a Stephen King novel.I don't beleive their theories have anything to do with King.Hey!I have a theory about The Big Lebowski,wanna hear it?Didn't think so.
:(

[Bev Vincent]

Sundance 2012 Review: Fascinating ‘Room 237′ Will Forever Change ‘The Shining’ For Audiences (http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/film-festivals/sundance-2012-review-room-237-kkell.php)

[exzel]

Among the topics of discussion are the many liberties, large and small, that Kubrick took with the original novel. Mr. King, who declined to comment for this article, has never concealed his dislike for the film and the way the director changed and discarded scenes, themes and details. In the book Jack’s Volkswagen is red; in the film it’s yellow. No big thing, until one discovers that King’s red VW actually did make it into the film, crushed underneath an overturned semi.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/29/movies/room-237-documentary-with-theories-about-the-shining.html?_r=1

I’m envious Ms. Mod! I often wish I could tell The New York Times to go f^#% themselves. And how petty of them to gleam on the color of the VW thing when so much as been penned about Kubrick ignoring important elements of King's novel, like the disintegration of the family and the downplaying of the supernatural element. I guess that’s what happens when one violates the eleventh commandment... Thou shalt not dismiss The NY Times. :wink2:

[fushingfeef]

I'm really wanting to see this movie now. I checked out a lot of Robert Ager's site and videos over the weekend, and while I think a lot of it is hogwash and conjecture, it's still very interesting analysis.

[Bev Vincent]

The movie will play on IFC (Independent Film Channel) at the end of March:

Fans of Stanley Kubrick’s The Shining won’t want to miss the conspiracy thriller doc Room 237, releasing on March 29. “After the box office failure of Barry Lyndon, Stanley Kubrick decided to embark on a project that might have more commercial appeal. The Shining, Stephen King’s biggest critical and commercial success yet, seemed like a perfect vehicle. After an arduous production, Kubrick’s film received a wide release in the summer of 1980; the reviews were mixed, but the box office, after a slow start, eventually picked up. End of story? Hardly. In the 30 years since the film’s release, a considerable cult of Shining devotees has emerged, fans who claim to have decoded the film’s secret messages addressing everything from the genocide of Native Americans to a range of government conspiracies. Rodney Ascher’s wry and provocative Room 237 fuses fact and fiction through interviews with cultists and scholars, creating a kaleidoscopic deconstruction of Kubrick’s still-controversial classic.”

[fushingfeef]

Can't wait!

[hossenpepper]

Mod,

Did you ever clarify what Steve's thoughts are/were on this?

It seems that I had read he had some level of displeasure with Kubrick's interpretation, etc. Were that so, it also makes sense that this documentary, extolling the virtues of that work, might be a bit of acid on the tongue.

I will watch it though. I admit that I did like that movie as a kid and saw it before I read the book. I also enjoyed the more recent miniseries. I guess a good premise is a good premise.

[Moderator]

Completely slipped my mind so, no, I don't know if he's seen it.

[hossenpepper]

Completely slipped my mind so, no, I don't know if he's seen it.

Well, ya know... If ya get bored sometime...

:17_002:

[fushingfeef]

I'd be a little surprised if he had watched it. Although, he may be understandably curious.

[Bev Vincent]

I submitted a review to FEARNet this weekend, but it hasn't run yet. The "interpretations" in this movie are pretty out there.

[hossenpepper]

I submitted a review to FEARNet this weekend, but it hasn't run yet. The "interpretations" in this movie are pretty out there.


I haven't seen it yet, so I can't comment on that. My angle here was that I have always heard SK did not like Kubrick's adaptation and as such I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't thrilled about this documentary glorifying it. It kind of gets his book further lost in the shuffle of what that movie was. Although, I suppose it might also kick interest back up in the story right when the sequel is due soon.

[Moderator]

He's backtracked a little over the years and has a little more appreciation for Kubrick's vision for the film but the reason he still doesn't like it is because he felt it was too "cold" and that he (Steve) didn't have much empathy for the characters because of it. Would have to hunt for the interview in which he's quoted but it wasn't all that long ago--within the last year or so, I think. If anyone else has that source, feel free to jump in.

[Bev Vincent]

I haven't seen it yet, so I can't comment on that. My angle here was that I have always heard SK did not like Kubrick's adaptation and as such I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't thrilled about this documentary glorifying it. It kind of gets his book further lost in the shuffle of what that movie was. Although, I suppose it might also kick interest back up in the story right when the sequel is due soon.

ROOM 237 doesn't glorify The Shining. The five interviewees come up with some wacky interpretations of the film. One guy thinks it's Kubrick's confession that he helped fake the Apollo 11 footage from the moon. Another thinks that it's about the holocaust and another that it's about the genocide of the American Indian. Their evidence is, um, sketchy.

[hossenpepper]

Not sure if this is what you were talking about MM, but this is from last year and talks about his thoughts on the movie and about Dr. sleep. also talks about the first time Kubrick contacted him. Good stuff! I tried to bookmark it at the correct time, but if it didn't come through, that part starts at the 33:07 mark.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UUfeHTK1Nw8#t=19 87s

[Moderator]

I think that was it--thanks for posting that! I did have to advance it but at least it didn't have to buffer and load.

[blunthead]

He's backtracked a little over the years and has a little more appreciation for Kubrick's vision for the film but the reason he still doesn't like it is because he felt it was too "cold" and that he (Steve) didn't have much empathy for the characters because of it. Would have to hunt for the interview in which he's quoted but it wasn't all that long ago--within the last year or so, I think. If anyone else has that source, feel free to jump in.How about this one...?

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/cultural-capital/2012/10/gilbey-film-interview-stephen-king-1978

or...

http://touch.denofgeek.us/denofgeekus/#!/entry/exclusive-the-lost-stephen-king-interview-part-2,50c8ef8ed7fc7b5670a168d6/1

[Moderator]

Not the ones I was thinking of as it most definitely was a recent one but those have some great comments, Frank. I think there's a print one in addition to the video Hoss put up but that's the basic content I was remembering.

[Lily Sawyer]

Y'know, I don't have a copy of The Shining handy to flip through, and I'm sitting here racking my brain trying to remember references, innuendos, and the like in both the book and movie to the "genocide of Native Americans". Is it me, or is this a real stretch even for conspiracy theorists? What the hell??!?

[hossenpepper]

At the 51:20 mark is a great quote:

"There's something about any creative process that's excretive."

Awesome...

[Bev Vincent]

Y'know, I don't have a copy of The Shining handy to flip through, and I'm sitting here racking my brain trying to remember references, innuendos, and the like in both the book and movie to the "genocide of Native Americans". Is it me, or is this a real stretch even for conspiracy theorists? What the hell??!?

In the film, the Overlook is built on an Indian burial ground. Plus there are cans of baking powder in the larder with an Indian head on the label. Ta da!

[hossenpepper]

In the film, the Overlook is built on an Indian burial ground. Plus there are cans of baking powder in the larder with an Indian head on the label. Ta da!

Well, I declare Mister Vincent, that sure enough is evidence of a conspiratorial plot afoot, don't you agree sir?

Yeah, "a stretch" is putting it kindly.

[fushingfeef]

Don't forget the native American wall-hangings as well.
The Shining was on TV last night and I ended up watching it for a while...can't take my eyes away from it for long.

[Shoe]

I like Kubrick's movie with the exception of Ms. Duvall. It scared me sideways growing up and I've watched it many times. I've read the book once and that was all it took for me to know its a much better experience than the movie.

[Lily Sawyer]

In the film, the Overlook is built on an Indian burial ground. Plus there are cans of baking powder in the larder with an Indian head on the label. Ta da!

Ah. Thank you, sir. :)

-Well, the burial ground would be sufficient material for ghosts to appear, but none of the Overlook's bar denizens are Native American, if I'm remembering correctly. It's also arguably a reason for the Overlook's ultimate demise, in that it's bad juju to build a structure of any kind on sacred burial ground. However, the references to Indian heads on commercial product labels and Native American artifacts in the hotel are indicative more of its location than anything else.

You're right; the evidence is sketchy at best for deeper interpretations of native genocide themes in the film.

[Bev Vincent]

My review: Room 237: Sometimes a cigar is a Moon rocket (http://www.fearnet.com/news/news-article/news-dead-zone-room-237-sometimes-cigar-moon-rocket)

[not_nadine]

Thank you, Bev.

Jeeze. Louise.

[Seb Shaw]

Such an interesting discussion!

Like most here, I think that the book is greater than the film. However, I'm intrigued by this documentary. I enjoy looking for hidden meanings in films/books. This seems as though it could be a step too far, but I'm sure it will still be enjoyable.

Great review by Bev too.
Also, thanks for posting the video where King was talking about the film. Very interesting!

[AchtungBaby]

This movie is one of my very favorites, and I love reading all the "theories" about it. Ahhh!

[A Plymouth's Fury]

Room 237 director Rodney Ascher has given a new interview with The Wrap. http://www.thewrap.com/movies/article/shining-30-years-later-room-237-asks-why-moviegoers-cant-leave-overlook-81786

[Bev Vincent]

Stanley Kubrick’s longtime assistant, Leon Vitali, says various theories about hidden meanings in “The Shining,” proposed in the documentary “Room 237,” are just “balderdash” in The NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/movies/aide-to-kubrick-on-shining-scoffs-at-room-237-theories.html?hp).

[exzel]

For the conspiracy theorist part of us, here is an entertaining article.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/03/28/the-most-eccentric-conspiracy-theories-on-the-shining-in-room-237.html

[fushingfeef]

The movie will play on IFC (Independent Film Channel) at the end of March:

Fans of Stanley Kubrick’s The Shining won’t want to miss the conspiracy thriller doc Room 237, releasing on March 29.

I was looking for this in the TV listings but it wasn't anywhere to be found. Unfortunately I just found out today it is not going to be shown on IFC tomorrow. It is being released at the IFC Center tomorrow, and also as a pay-per-view on IFC "On Demand", which unfortunately I don't have through my carrier. I am totally bummed out about this, I was really looking forward to seeing this tomorrow!

[btobey]

My review: Room 237: Sometimes a cigar is a Moon rocket (http://www.fearnet.com/news/news-article/news-dead-zone-room-237-sometimes-cigar-moon-rocket)
Bev, nice review--pretty on the mark with how I felt about it.

[doowopgirl]

I saw this, IMO travesty of a film. I started a thread on this, but on rereading it, I don't think I expressed myself very well. IMO, this was the silliest film of all time. Lots of supposition, if you put this frame over this frame and lots of continuity errors that have way too much importance given to them.

[fushingfeef]

I finally got to watch this film on Amazon Instant (thanks for the tip, Spidey!) and I really enjoyed it. I'm a big fan of The Shining as a film separate from the world of SK, it has always been a movie I can keep watching, so I totally empathize with the people in the documentary who are trying to puzzle over exactly why this movie is so compelling despite its weaknesses and departures from King's original (and great) novel.

I don't agree with most (or maybe any) of the theories about hidden meanings, I believe most of these people give Kubrick too much credit, however that did not lessen my enjoyment of the film. You can like The Shining whether or not you believe in hidden meanings, and the same goes for Room 237 the documentary. An interesting and entertaining documentary overall.

[muskrat]

Kubrick's Shining is a damn fine film. Dunno about all the "hidden messages", but I've always loved the flick. Freaked me right the heck out when I was a kid--mostly cause I couldn't understand what was going on--I just knew it was creepy. Heck, the dang SOUNDTRACK is enough to make you wet 'em. And c'mon--Jack's performance is legend.

Sure, it ain't the book. Course not. It's a movie. Der.

And c'mon--freakin Scatman! Tell me, with a straight face (talkin to you, GNTL, heh) that you don't like this movie at least a LITTLE.

Scatman and Jack. You don't like that you just don't like movies, see.

[Ceefor]

You guys are a bunch of cards, you need to be dealt with...:laugh:

:laugh: ..!

Seriously, anything happened with the documentary..? :)

[Evil Queen]

http://www.collativelearning.com/the%20shining%20-%20chap%2016.html

I was wondering if I should start a new thread with my question but just thought to post it here.........it could be that this has been discussed here on the board but I must have missed it. I was reading this stuff(click on the link to see) and was just disgusted! I wondered if Mr. Stephen King is aware of it and if they were his intentions in the book, or they are Kubrick's or just the opinions of the analyzer? I didn't interprete the book this way at all...or the movie, of all the times I've watched it. Can one of you moderators help with this?